The Presiding Officer: Good afternoon. [Assembly Members: ‘Good afternoon’.]

Y Llywydd: Prynhawn da. [Aelodau’r Cynulliad: ‘Prynhawn da’.]

Thank you; I like to ensure that you are all here. I now call the National Assembly for Wales to order.

Diolch ichi; rwy’n hoffi sicrhau eich bod chi i gyd yma. Galwaf Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru i drefn.

The Presiding Officer: In the absence of the Deputy Presiding Officer, I ask the Assembly to elect a temporary Deputy Presiding Officer for the duration of today’s Plenary meeting. I therefore invite nominations.

Y Llywydd: Yn absenoldeb y Dirprwy Lywydd, gofynnaf i’r Cynulliad ethol Dirprwy Lywydd dros dro ar gyfer y Cyfarfod Llawn heddiw. Felly, gwahoddaf enwebiadau.

Peter Black: I nominate Rhodri Glyn Thomas.

Peter Black: Enwebaf Rhodri Glyn Thomas.

The Presiding Officer: I therefore declare that Rhodri Glyn Thomas is elected as temporary Deputy Presiding Officer for the duration of today’s Plenary meeting.

Y Llywydd: Felly, yr wyf yn datgan bod Rhodri Glyn Thomas yn cael ei ethol yn Ddirprwy Lywydd dros dro am hyd y Cyfarfod Llawn heddiw.

Janet Finch-Saunders: Excuse me; I nominate Paul Davies.

Janet Finch-Saunders: Esgusodwch fi; enwebaf Paul Davies.

The Presiding Officer: I am sorry, but that is not appropriate, as the nominee has to be an Assembly Commissioner. I declare that Rhodri Glyn Thomas is elected as temporary Deputy Presiding Officer for the duration of today’s Plenary meeting.

Y Llywydd: Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, ond nid yw hynny’n briodol, gan fod yn rhaid i’r enwebai fod yn Gomisiynydd Cynulliad. Yr wyf yn datgan bod Rhodri Glyn Thomas wedi’i ethol yn Ddirprwy Lywydd dros dro am hyd y Cyfarfod Llawn heddiw.

Jane Hutt: We are committed to openness and transparency, and that is reflected in the approach I took to the budget process. I keep the approach under constant review. This year, for the first time, I made an oral statement to the Assembly on the day I published our spending plans.  

Jane Hutt: Rydym wedi ymrwymo i fod yn agored a thryloyw, ac mae hynny’n cael ei adlewyrchu yn fy ymagwedd at y broses gyllideb. Rwyf yn adolygu’r ymagwedd honno yn gyson. Eleni, am y tro cyntaf, gwneuthum ddatganiad llafar i’r Cynulliad ar y diwrnod y cyhoeddais ein cynlluniau gwariant.

Peter Black: Thank you for that answer, Minister. Again, I welcome very much the fact that you made that oral statement. I refer you to the report of the Finance Committee on your budget. It highlighted a number of issues relating to transparency, and in particular the level of detail available to individual committees, which varied quite considerably, and the comparison between this year and last year, which I believe is based on the supplementary budget and not last year’s budget. How will you be addressing those issues in future budgets?

Peter Black: Diolch ichi am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Unwaith eto, croesawaf yn fawr iawn eich bod wedi gwneud y datganiad llafar hwnnw. Fe’ch cyfeiriaf at adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cyllid ar eich cyllideb. Amlygodd nifer o faterion yn ymwneud â thryloywder, ac yn benodol lefel y manylion sydd ar gael i bwyllgorau unigol, oedd yn amrywio’n eithaf sylweddol, a’r gymhariaeth rhwng eleni a’r llynedd, sy’n seiliedig, rwy’n credu, ar y gyllideb atodol ac nid cyllideb y llynedd. Sut y byddwch yn mynd i’r afael â’r materion hynny mewn cyllidebau yn y dyfodol?

Jane Hutt: I thank the finance spokesperson for the Welsh Liberal Democrats for that question. I said in my evidence to the committee, and indeed in the draft budget debate last week, that the way we presented our spending plans this year is consistent with the standard approach we have always taken when we have already published a set of indicative figures. However, I also said that I would seek to work with the committee to ensure that there is consistency of approach to the way that information is provided to committees. I look forward to engaging with the committee to ensure that we can deliver that in the future budget process.

Jane Hutt: Diolchaf i lefarydd cyllid Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru am y cwestiwn hwnnw. Dywedais yn fy nhystiolaeth i’r pwyllgor, ac yn wir yn y ddadl ar y gyllideb ddrafft yr wythnos diwethaf, fod y ffordd y gwnaethom gyflwyno’n cynlluniau gwariant eleni’n gyson â’r ffordd yr ydym bob tro yn eu cyflwyno pan ydym eisoes wedi cyhoeddi set o ffigurau dangosol. Fodd bynnag, dywedais hefyd y byddem yn ceisio gweithio gyda’r pwyllgor i sicrhau cysondeb yn y ffordd y darperir gwybodaeth i bwyllgorau. Edrychaf ymlaen at weithio gyda’r pwyllgor i sicrhau ein bod yn gallu cyflawni hynny yn y broses gyllideb yn y dyfodol.

Peter Black: Thank you for that answer, Minister. I welcome the fact that you are prepared to work with the committee on the future presentation. I think that the issue here is striking the balance between what you have always done and proper scrutiny, ensuring that committees are able to scrutinise budgets by having proper comparisons available. Therefore, I welcome the fact that you will look at that. In particular, I ask you to address the issue of the level of detail available to committees, which varied considerably. I think that all committees would welcome much greater detail on how the money is going to be spent.

Peter Black: Diolch ichi am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Croesawaf y ffaith eich bod yn barod i weithio gyda’r pwyllgor ar y cyflwyniad yn y dyfodol. Credaf mai’r mater yn y fan hon yw sicrhau cydbwysedd rhwng yr hyn yr ydych wastad wedi’i wneud a gwaith craffu priodol, gan sicrhau bod y cymariaethau priodol ar gael i’r pwyllgorau allu craffu ar gyllidebau. Felly, croesawaf y ffaith y byddwch yn edrych ar hynny. Yn benodol, gofynnaf ichi roi sylw i lefel y manylion sydd ar gael i bwyllgorau, oedd yn amrywio’n sylweddol. Credaf y byddai pob pwyllgor yn croesawu gwybodaeth fwy manwl ar sut y bydd arian yn cael ei wario.

Jane Hutt: As I think you know, we publish a wealth of information on the budget. The action tables set out in detail how we plan to use the resources. As I know you appreciate, it is about how we strike an appropriate balance between the detail you need to understand and scrutinise our spending plans and the strategic outline and narrative we deliver. I have said to the finance spokespersons that I am happy to provide that detail and to reassure the Chamber that we have provided that detail on request to the third sector, which was something raised by the Finance Committee as a particular concern.

Jane Hutt: Fel y credaf ichi wybod, rydym yn cyhoeddi gwybodaeth helaeth am y gyllideb. Mae’r tablau camau gweithredu yn nodi’n fanwl sut yr ydym yn bwriadu defnyddio’r adnoddau. Fel y gwn y byddwch yn ei werthfawrogi, mae’n ymwneud â sut yr ydym yn taro cydbwysedd priodol rhwng y manylion y mae angen arnoch er mwyn i chi ddeall a chraffu ar ein cynlluniau gwario a’r amlinelliad strategol a’r naratif yr ydym yn eu cyflawni. Yr wyf wedi dweud wrth y llefarwyr cyllid fy mod i’n hapus i ddarparu’r manylion hynny ac i roi sicrwydd i’r Siambr ein bod wedi darparu’r manylion hynny i’r trydydd sector ar gais, a oedd yn rhywbeth a godwyd gan y Pwyllgor Cyllid fel mater oedd yn peri pryder.

Antoinette Sandbach: Minister, one issue that I have written to the Minister for Environment and Sustainable Development about on a number of occasions is the lack of transparency over the multimillion pound tax-exempt revenue that the Welsh Government will receive from windfarms on Forestry Commission land. In light of the considerable public interest in these developments and the Welsh Government’s responsibilities in terms of planning decisions that may be called in, do you not agree that there should be greater transparency about such revenue in order that members of the public can be aware of any potential conflicts of interest and Assembly Members can hold your Government to account?

Antoinette Sandbach: Weinidog, un mater yr wyf wedi ysgrifennu yn ei gylch at Weinidog yr Amgylchedd a Datblygu Cynaliadwy ar sawl achlysur yw’r diffyg tryloywder yn y refeniw di-dreth, gwerth miliynau o bunnoedd, y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru’n ei dderbyn o ganlyniad i’r ffermydd gwynt ar dir y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth. Yn wyneb y diddordeb cyhoeddus sylweddol yn y datblygiadau hyn a chyfrifoldebau Llywodraeth Cymru o ran penderfyniadau cynllunio y gellir eu galw i mewn, onid ydych yn cytuno y dylai fod mwy o dryloywder ynghylch refeniw o’r fath fel y gall aelodau o’r cyhoedd wybod am unrhyw wrthdaro buddiannau posibl ac y gall Aelodau’r Cynulliad ddwyn eich Llywodraeth i gyfrif?

Jane Hutt: I am sure that the Minister for Environment and Sustainable Development has responded and would want to provide that transparency. When we have the information that is appropriate to share and robust in the sense of being sufficiently up-to-date, I am certain that the Minister will be prepared to share that, and I will ensure that it is shared with the committee and with Members.

Jane Hutt: Yr wyf yn siŵr bod Gweinidog yr Amgylchedd a Datblygu Cynaliadwy wedi ymateb ac y byddai eisiau darparu tryloywder. Pan fydd gennym gwybodaeth sy’n briodol i rannu ac yn gadarn, yn yr ystyr ei bod yn ddigon diweddar, yr wyf yn sicr y bydd y Gweinidog yn barod i rannu’r gwybodaeth honno, a byddaf yn sicrhau y caiff ei rhannu gyda’r pwyllgor ac Aelodau.

Elin Jones: Minister, there is a line in the budget for next year for £5,061,780,000. Do you consider that budget line to be sufficiently transparent? Given that your Government has said that there will be no mid-year bailout of local health boards in future, is it time to make local health boards directly accountable to the Assembly and to bring them in front of the Health and Social Care Committee or the Finance Committee to account for their spend of what amounts to a third of the Welsh Government’s budget?

Elin Jones: Weinidog, mae llinell yn y gyllideb ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf sydd yn £5,061,780,000. A ydych chi’n meddwl bod y llinell gyllideb honno’n ddigon tryloyw? O gofio bod eich Llywodraeth wedi dweud na fydd unrhyw achub canol y flwyddyn o’r byrddau iechyd lleol yn y dyfodol, onid yw’n hen bryd i wneud byrddau iechyd lleol yn atebol i’r Cynulliad yn uniongyrchol ac i ddod â nhw o flaen y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol neu’r Pwyllgor Cyllid i fod yn atebol am eu gwariant, sy’n cyfateb i draean o gyllideb Llywodraeth Cymru?

Jane Hutt: I certainly appreciate that point about the figure of £5 billion, which is the bulk of funding that goes out to the NHS, to local health boards. Indeed, with regard to the scrutiny that I am sure took place in the Health and Social Care Committee, questions would have been asked about the detail of that big important budget line. Certainly, this is the kind of area on which I would like to work with the committee to ascertain how we can provide clarity. I know that the Finance Committee has scrutinised the NHS Confederation on the impact of the budget.

Jane Hutt: Yr wyf yn gwerthfawrogi’r pwynt am y £5 biliwn, sef rhan fwyaf yr arian sydd yn mynd i’r GIG, i fyrddau iechyd lleol. Yn wir, o ran y craffu a wnaed yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol yr wyf yn siŵr, byddai cwestiynau wedi cael eu gofyn am fanylion y llinell gyllideb fawr a phwysig honno. Yn sicr, dyma’r math o faes hoffwn i weithio arno gyda’r pwyllgor er mwyn canfod sut y gallwn ddarparu eglurder. Gwn fod y Pwyllgor Cyllid wedi craffu ar Gydffederasiwn y GIG ynghylch effaith y gyllideb.

Simon Thomas: Mae’r Gweinidog wedi amlinellu’r buddsoddiad yn y cynllun hwn, ond a wnaiff y Gweinidog amlinellu rhai o’r cynlluniau llwyddiannus sydd wedi dod o’r cynllun buddsoddi i arbed? Beth yw ei hamcangyfrif o’r arian y mae’r Llywodraeth a llywodraeth leol wedi ei arbed o’r cynllun hyd yn hyn?

Simon Thomas: The Minister has outlined the investment in this scheme, but will the Minister outline some of the successful schemes resulting from the invest-to-save scheme? What is her estimate of the amounts that the Government and local government have saved so far as a result of the scheme?

Jane Hutt: I thank Simon Thomas for providing that opening for me to give some very good news. Wrexham County Borough Council has reduced its energy costs and carbon emissions and is forecasted to deliver £19 million of efficiency savings and reduce its carbon emissions by 50 per cent. I went to visit that project. A public sector broadband aggregation initiative typically provides a reduction of 20 per cent by helping the public sector to access services at a reduced revenue cost. I will mention another example. A project by Carmarthenshire County Council and Hywel Dda Local Health Board on convalescent beds has been delivered. This has led to a reduction in delayed transfers of care, improved outcomes for older people and has a forecasted efficiency saving of £1.7 million.

Jane Hutt: Diolchaf i Simon Thomas am roi’r cyfle imi gyfleu newyddion da iawn. Mae Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Wrecsam wedi lleihau ei gostau ynni ac allyriadau carbon a rhagwelir y bydd yn arbed £19 miliwn drwy fesurau effeithlonrwydd a lleihau ei allyriadau carbon gan 50 y cant. Ymwelais â’r prosiect hwnnw. Fel arfer, mae menter cydgasglu band eang sector cyhoeddus yn golygu gostyngiad o 20 y cant o ganlyniad i helpu’r sector cyhoeddus cael mynediad at wasanaethau am gost refeniw llai. Soniaf am enghraifft arall. Mae Cyngor Sir Caerfyrddin a Bwrdd Iechyd Lleol Hywel Dda wedi cyflawni prosiect ar welyau ymadfer. Mae hyn wedi arwain at lai o achosion o oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal, ganlyniadau gwell ar gyfer pobl hŷn, a rhagwelir y bydd arbediad effeithlonrwydd o £1.7 miliwn.

1.45 p.m.

Yr Arglwydd Dafydd Elis-Thomas: Onid y peth pwysig, fel Gweinidog Cyllid, o edrych ar draws Llywodraeth, yw bod yr ymagwedd biosystemau yn nhermau’r gwasanaeth biosystemol sy’n cael eu cynnig i Gymru, fel pob rhan arall o’r byd, drwy brosesau naturiol, a bod angen cydnabod gwir werth y rhain i’r economi ac i gymdeithas? Hyd nes y bydd gennym economeg werdd yn y ffordd yr ydym yn trin y gweithgareddau hyn, ni fydd gwir gost a chyfraniad yr ecosystem i’r greadigaeth yn cael ei chydnabod.

Lord Elis-Thomas: Is not the important thing, as Finance Minister, looking across Government, the biosystems approach in terms of the biosystemic service that is being proposed for Wales, like every other part of the word, through natural processes, and that we need to recognise the true value of these to the economy and to society? Until we have a green economy in the way that we deal with these activities, the true cost and contribution of the ecosystem to the creation will not be acknowledged.

Jane Hutt: In response to Dafydd Elis-Thomas, I believe that his committee is looking very carefully at protecting healthy ecosystems, including halting biodiversity loss, which is a priority within the programme for government across departments, which includes those actions that I have highlighted. We need to look at the cross-benefit of that in terms of the economy and wider society.

Jane Hutt: Mewn ymateb i Dafydd Elis-Thomas, credaf fod ei bwyllgor yn edrych yn ofalus ar amddiffyn ecosystemau iach, gan gynnwys atal colli bioamrywiaeth, sydd yn flaenoriaeth o fewn y rhaglen lywodraethu ar draws adrannau, sy’n cynnwys y camau yr wyf wedi’u hamlygu. Mae angen inni edrych ar fanteision hynny o ran yr economi a’r gymdeithas ehangach.

Jane Hutt: I have given assurances on this point, not only to Members this afternoon but also to the Finance Committee and in my response to the draft budget debate last week. We will work on this to ensure that a consistent approach is delivered.

Jane Hutt: Yr wyf wedi rhoi sicrwydd ar y pwynt hwn, nid yn unig i Aelodau’r prynhawn yma, ond hefyd i’r Pwyllgor Cyllid ac yn fy ymateb i ddadl y gyllideb ddrafft yr wythnos diwethaf. Byddwn yn gweithio ar hyn i sicrhau bod dull cyson yn cael ei ddarparu.

Paul Davies: In addition to the points made by the Member for North Wales, the Finance Committee also noted that few specific targets or objectives with measurable outcomes were presented for scrutiny. It is essential, of course, that the Welsh Government provides proper, detailed targets for spending, and that progress on these targets is measured in a meaningful way. Could you detail specifically how the Welsh Government intends to monitor targets for spending to ensure value for money for taxpayers?

Paul Davies: Yn ychwanegol at y pwyntiau a wnaed gan yr Aelod dros Ogledd Cymru, nododd y Pwyllgor Cyllid hefyd ychydig o dargedau neu amcanion penodol gyda chanlyniadau mesuradwy a gyflwynwyd ar gyfer craffu. Mae’n hanfodol, wrth gwrs, bod Llywodraeth Cymru’n darparu targedau priodol a manwl ar gyfer gwariant, a bod cynnydd ar y targedau hyn yn cael ei fesur mewn ffordd ystyrlon. A allech fanylu’n benodol sut mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn bwriadu monitro targedau ar gyfer gwariant i sicrhau gwerth am arian i drethdalwyr?

Jane Hutt: The budget underpins the programme for government. Progress on that programme will be detailed in an annual report that will provide milestones and impacts, in terms of the outcomes of the budget process.

Jane Hutt: Mae’r gyllideb yn sail i’r rhaglen llywodraethu. Bydd cynnydd ar y rhaglen honno’n cael ei fanylu yn adroddiad blynyddol a fydd yn darparu cerrig milltir ac effeithiau, o ran canlyniadau’r broses gyllideb.

Paul Davies: Minister, you will also be aware that no sustainability impact assessment has been made of the budget as a whole. The Finance Committee felt that the draft budget’s impact on sustainable development should be considered as part of a full sustainability impact assessment of the Welsh Government’s draft budget. As you know, the committee recommended that a full sustainability impact assessment should be made of all proposed allocations within the Welsh Government’s final budget. Will you outline the specific action that the Welsh Government has taken in light of this recommendation?

Paul Davies: Weinidog, byddwch hefyd yn ymwybodol na wnaed unrhyw asesiad effaith ar gynaliadwyedd o’r gyllideb yn ei chyfanrwydd. Teimlai’r Pwyllgor Cyllid y dylid ystyried effaith y gyllideb ddrafft ar ddatblygu cynaliadwy fel rhan o asesiad effaith cynaliadwyedd llawn o gyllideb ddrafft Llywodraeth Cymru. Fel y gwyddoch, argymhellodd y pwyllgor y dylid gwneud asesiad effaith ar gynaliadwyedd llawn o holl ddyraniadau arfaethedig o fewn cyllideb derfynol Llywodraeth Cymru. A wnewch chi amlinellu’r camau penodol y mae Llywodraeth Cymru’n eu cymryd yng ngoleuni’r argymhelliad hwn?

Jane Hutt: I assure the finance spokesperson for the Welsh Conservatives that our commitment to sustainable development underpins the process for collecting evidence to support our budget decisions. It shapes the analysis of our options, it is reflected in the budget proposals that we have published, and it is a requirement for every ministerial budget outline that we consider at the pre-budget stage.

Jane Hutt: Gallaf sicrhau llefarydd cyllid y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig bod ein hymrwymiad i ddatblygu cynaliadwy yn sail i’r broses o gasglu tystiolaeth i gefnogi ein penderfyniadau cyllidebol. Mae’n llunio dadansoddiad o’r opsiynau, fe’i hadlewyrchir yn y cynigion cyllidebol a gyhoeddwyd gennym, ac mae’n ofyniad ar gyfer pob amlinelliad cyllideb weinidogol a ystyriwn yn y cyfnod cyn y gyllideb.

Arweinydd Plaid Cymru (Ieuan Wyn Jones): Yn y gyllideb ddrafft, yr ydych yn amlinellu, mewn modd bras a chyffredinol, y ffaith eich bod yn edrych ar ffyrdd gwahanol o godi arian cyfalaf y tu allan i’r bloc. Ar y naill law, yr ydych yn dweud eich bod yn edrych am bwerau benthyg; ar y llaw arall, dywedasoch wrthym ddoe eich bod yn edrych ar gynorthwyo awdurdodau lleol drwy ddefnyddio’r pwerau benthyg sydd ganddynt hwy. Yr ydych hefyd wedi dweud eich bod yn cynnal trafodaethau â’r Llywodraeth yn Llundain ynghylch ffyrdd o geisio cael arian ychwanegol at hynny, drwy gael arian sydd y tu allan i’r bloc. A allwch chi roi amllinelliad clir inni heddiw o fanylion y trafodaethau yr ydych wedi eu cynnal â’r Trysorlys? Pa ymateb yr ydych wedi ei gael i’ch cais? 

The Leader of Plaid Cymru (Ieuan Wyn Jones): In the draft budget, you outline, in a broad and general way, the fact that you are looking at different ways of raising capital funds outside of the block. On the one hand, you say that you are looking for borrowing powers; on the other hand, you told us yesterday that you are looking at assisting local government by using their borrowing powers. You have also said that you are having discussions with the Government in London about ways of trying to get money in addition to that, by getting funds outside of the block. Can you give us a clear outline today of the details of the discussions that you have had with the Treasury? What response have you had to your request?

Jane Hutt: Plaid Cymru’s leader and finance spokesperson will be aware of the discussions that I have had with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury. I reported on those discussions to the Finance Committee and in the Chamber yesterday in the statement on the Wales infrastructure investment plan. What I was progressing with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury was the intergovernmental talks that are aimed at ensuring that we get a fair funding base and borrowing powers. In my statement yesterday, I also mentioned that we also had the opportunity to meet the Minister with responsibility for infrastructure, the Commercial Secretary to the Treasury, Lord Sassoon, to talk about opportunities and the kinds of Welsh infrastructure projects that we would be looking at and would need borrowing powers for. Those meetings are ongoing, and I am due to meet the Chief Secretary to the Treasury again early in the new year.

Jane Hutt: Bydd arweinydd a llefarydd Plaid Cymru ar gyllid yn ymwybodol o’r trafodaethau a gefais gyda Phrif Ysgrifennydd y Trysorlys. Rhoddais adroddiad ar y trafodaethau hynny i’r Pwyllgor Cyllid ac yn y Siambr ddoe yn y datganiad ar y cynllun buddsoddi yn seilwaith Cymru. Yr hyn yr oeddwn yn symud yn ei flaen gyda Phrif Ysgrifennydd y Trysorlys oedd y trafodaethau rhynglywodraethol sy’n anelu at sicrhau y cawn sylfaen ariannu teg a phwerau benthyca. Yn fy natganiad ddoe, soniais hefyd bod gennym gyfle i gyfarfod y Gweinidog â chyfrifoldeb dros seilwaith, Ysgrifennydd Masnach y Trysorlys, yr Arglwydd Sassoon, i sôn am gyfleoedd a’r mathau o brosiectau seilwaith y byddwn yn edrych arnynt yng Nghymru ac y byddwn angen pwerau benthyca ar eu cyfer. Mae’r cyfarfodydd hynny’n mynd rhagddynt, ac yr wyf yn mynd i gwrdd â Phrif Ysgrifennydd y Trysorlys unwaith eto yn gynnar yn y flwyddyn newydd.

Ieuan Wyn Jones: Un o’r rhesymau y mae angen rhaglenni cyfalaf arnom ar frys yw’r sefyllfa economaidd sy’n ein hwynebu. Deallaf eich bod yn pwyso am bwerau benthyg ac yn edrych ar nifer o bethau eraill, fel setliad ariannol teg. Mae pob un ohonom yn cytuno â hynny. Fodd bynnag, bydd hynny’n cymryd amser, ac ni allwn ddisgwyl setliad tymor byr ar gyfer yr argyfwng economaidd sy’n ein hwynebu. Yr ydym yn disgwyl datganiad gan y Trysorlys ddydd Mawrth, fel rhan o ddatganiad yr hydref, a fydd yn amlinellu’r arian cyfalaf posibl y byddwn yn ei gael i hybu’r economi yng Nghymru. A ydych wedi bod yn pwyso ar y Trysorlys i sicrhau bydd Cymru’n cael cyfran deg o’r arian sy’n debygol o gael ei ddyrannu os yw’r Canghellor yn gwneud datganiad ddydd Mawrth?

Ieuan Wyn Jones: One reason why we urgently need capital programmes is the economic situation that faces us. I understand that you are pressing for borrowing powers and are looking at a number of other things, such as a fair funding settlement. We all agree with that. However, that will take time, and we cannot wait for a short-term settlement for the economic crisis that faces us. We expect an announcement from the Treasury on Tuesday, as part of the autumn statement, that will outline the possible capital funding that we will get to promote the economy in Wales. Have you been pressing on the Treasury to ensure that Wales gets its fair share of the money that is likely to be allocated if the Chancellor makes a statement on Tuesday?

Jane Hutt: I have put forward proposals on the kind of projects that we would seek to be included in any announcement on the UK infrastructure fund, which is due to be made next Tuesday. That is very much in line with the Wales infrastructure investment plan that I announced yesterday, and the UK Government Minister for infrastructure agreed that he would reflect that in the plan to be announced next week.

Jane Hutt: Yr wyf wedi cyflwyno cynigion ar y math o brosiectau y byddem yn ceisio eu cynnwys yn unrhyw gyhoeddiad ar gronfa seilwaith y DU, a chaiff ei wneud ddydd Mawrth nesaf. Mae hynny’n unol â chynllun buddsoddi yn seilwaith Cymru a gyhoeddais ddoe, a chytunodd Weinidog Llywodraeth y DU ar gyfer seilwaith y byddai’n adlewyrchu hynny yn y cynllun a chaiff ei gyhoeddi’r wythnos nesaf.

With regard to swift action using the levers that we have, I am sure that you would welcome my announcement of nearly £90 million of capital investment, which, as I have said, will result in over 1,000 jobs being created each year in the construction industry. There is also the £12 million that I have allocated to ensure that we can kick-start a £100 million to £170 million highways improvement programme with local authority-assisted borrowing. That is progress on every front, using every lever that we have, to ensure that we provide an economic stimulus—something that we have so far not seen any sign of from the UK Government.

O ran gweithredu cyflym wrth ddefnyddio’r gallu sydd gennym, yr wyf yn siŵr y byddech yn croesawu fy nghyhoeddiad o bron i £90 miliwn o fuddsoddiad cyfalaf, a fydd, fel y dywedais, yn arwain at dros 1,000 o swyddi’n cael eu creu bob blwyddyn yn y diwydiant adeiladu. Mae yna hefyd y £12 miliwn a wnes i ddyrannu i sicrhau y gallwn roi hwb i raglen gwella priffyrdd £100 miliwn i £170 miliwn gyda benthyca cynorthwyol gan awdurdodau lleol. Hynny yw cynnydd ym mhob maes, yn defnyddio pob ysgogiad sydd gennym, i sicrhau ein bod yn darparu ysgogiad economaidd—rhywbeth ni welsom, hyd yma, unrhyw arwydd ohono gan Lywodraeth y DU.

Aled Roberts: Mae nifer ohonom yn cymharu’r cyfle i graffu ar y gyllideb â’r sefyllfa mewn llywodraeth leol. Mae Elin Jones wedi crybwyll y llinell ar gyfer cyllideb plant a ddaeth gerbron y Pwyllgor Plant a Phobl Ifanc, a’r sôn am £5 biliwn. Mae’r amserlen a’r cyfleoedd i ni ar y pwyllgorau i graffu ar y gyllideb yn dynn iawn—rhyw bythefnos, os hynny, y flwyddyn hon. A ydych yn barod i ystyried cyhoeddi’r gyllideb ddrafft yn gynharach fel bod gan y pwyllgorau fwy o gyfle i graffu ar y cynigion yn sylweddol?

Aled Roberts: Many of us compare the opportunity to scrutinise the budget with the situation within local government. Elin Jones has mentioned the budget line for children that came before the Children and Young People Committee, and the £5 billion mentioned. The timetable and the opportunities for us on committees to scrutinise the budget are very restricted—a fortnight, if that, this year. Are you willing to consider publishing the draft budget earlier so that the committees have more opportunities to scrutinise the proposals substantially?

Jane Hutt: I keep our approach to publishing our budget proposals under review, and am working to explore how we can improve the process in light of the Finance Committee’s recommendations on the transparency and presentation of our proposals. We have a scrutiny process here, and we give the committees an opportunity to come back and carefully scrutinise not only me, but individual portfolio Ministers.

Jane Hutt: Yr wyf yn cadw’n hymagwedd tuag at gyhoeddi ein cynigion cyllideb o dan adolygiad, ac yr wyf yn gweithio i archwilio sut y gallwn wella’r broses yng ngoleuni argymhellion y Pwyllgor Cyllid ar y tryloywder a chyflwyniad ein cynigion. Mae gennym broses graffu yma, ac rydym yn rhoi cyfle i bwyllgorau i ddod yn ôl ac edrych yn fanwl nid yn unig arnaf i, ond ar Weinidogion portffolio unigol.

2.00 p.m.

Jane Hutt: Certainly. I have already made one announcement of an additional allocation to twenty-first century schools. The Minister will make an announcement shortly on the whole programme. We will be looking to local authority assisted borrowing as a route forward. It is appropriate for us to start in partnership with local government on the highway improvement scheme, but we have said that the next obvious candidate would be twenty-first century schools.

Jane Hutt: Yn sicr. Yr wyf eisoes wedi gwneud un cyhoeddiad am ddyraniad ychwanegol i ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Bydd y Gweinidog yn gwneud cyhoeddiad cyn bo hir am y rhaglen gyfan. Byddwn yn troi at fenthyca a gynorthwyir i awdurdodau lleol fel llwybr ymlaen. Mae’n briodol i ni ddechrau mewn partneriaeth â llywodraeth leol ar y cynllun gwella priffyrdd, ond yr ydym wedi dweud mai’r ymgeisydd amlwg nesaf fydd ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain.

Bethan Jenkins: Weinidog, a oes unrhyw gysylltiad rhwng eich adran chi ac adran Edwina Hart ynglŷn ag ehangu cyfleoedd cyfartal i fenywod Asiaidd i ddatblygu busnesau? Hynny yw, a fedr y parthau mentrau newydd edrych ar sut y gallwn ennyn mwy o fenywod i fod yn rhan o fusnes, gan fod cyn lleied o fenywod o leiafrifoedd ethnig ar hyn o bryd yn datblygu busnesau eu hun?

Bethan Jenkins: Minister, is there any connection between your department and that of Edwina Hart regarding broadening equal opportunities for Asian women to develop businesses? That is, could the new enterprise zones look at how we could persuade more women to be part of business, because so few ethnic minority women currently develop their own businesses?

Jane Hutt: The award that I presented at the Welsh Asian Women Achievement Award was to a young businesswoman from Swansea. The commitment of the Minister for business and my commitment are firmly joined in terms of promoting the entrepreneurial achievements and opportunities of Asian women.

Jane Hutt: Cyflwyno gwobr i wraig fusnes ifanc o Abertawe yr oeddwn yng Ngwobrau Llwyddiant Menywod Asiaidd Cymru. Mae undeb cadarn rhwng ymrwymiad y Gweinidog busnes a’m hymrwymiad i o ran hyrwyddo llwyddiannau entrepreneuraidd a chyfleoedd menywod Asiaidd.

Eluned Parrott: Minister, I was proud to host the recent launch of findings from project MINA, a study looking at the lifestyle and health of women in Wales’s Bangladeshi community. However, the findings highlighted a number of issues, including a tendency for women to become socially isolated and immobile due to language barriers, and also a lack of culturally appropriate social activities such as women-only swimming sessions. Will the Minister agree to meet the research team and use its report to help inform the equality policy that she is currently developing?

Eluned Parrott: Weinidog, yr oeddwn yn falch o gynnal lansiad diweddar o ganfyddiadau prosiect MINA, astudiaeth a oedd yn edrych ar ffordd o fyw ac iechyd menywod yng nghymuned Fangladeshaidd Cymru. Fodd bynnag, amlygodd y canfyddiadau nifer o faterion, gan gynnwys tuedd i fenywod i gael eu hynysu yn gymdeithasol ac i brofi diffyg symudedd oherwydd rhwystrau ieithyddol, a hefyd diffyg gweithgareddau cymdeithasol a oedd yn ddiwylliannol briodol fel sesiynau nofio ar gyfer menywod yn unig. A wnaiff y Gweinidog gytuno i gwrdd â’r tîm ymchwil a defnyddio ei adroddiad er mwyn helpu i lywio’r polisi cydraddoldeb y mae hi’n ei ddatblygu ar hyn o bryd?

Jane Hutt: Eluned Parrott has obviously heard useful evidence from that group, and I would like to follow up on that invitation.

Jane Hutt: Mae Eluned Parrott yn amlwg wedi clywed tystiolaeth ddefnyddiol gan y grŵp hwnnw, a hoffwn fanteisio ar y gwahoddiad hwnnw.

Mike Hedges: I thank the Minister for that response and for her statement yesterday on capital. When does the Minister intend to report back on progress made in raising additional capital via the Welsh Local Government Association, and on how much additional prudential borrowing local authorities have taken up?

Mike Hedges: Diolch i’r Gweinidog am yr ymateb hwnnw ac am ei datganiad ddoe ar gyfalaf. Pryd mae’r Gweinidog yn bwriadu adrodd yn ôl ar y cynnydd a wnaed wrth godi cyfalaf ychwanegol drwy Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, ac ar faint o fenthyca darbodus ychwanegol y mae awdurdodau lleol wedi gwneud?

Jane Hutt: I thank Mike Hedges for that question. I will be following up, with my colleague the Minister for Local Government and Communities, on the opportunities that local authorities are taking up in terms of prudential borrowing. We announced yesterday that we are putting in £12 million to assist the unsupported borrowing of local authorities on a strategic basis in terms of our shared priorities. That is a demonstration of my commitment to tackle head on the implications of the falling capital budget.

Jane Hutt: Diolch i Mike Hedges am y cwestiwn hwnnw. Byddaf yn dilyn i fyny, gyda’m cydweithiwr y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau, ar y cyfleoedd y mae awdurdodau lleol yn manteisio arnynt o ran benthyca darbodus. Cyhoeddasom ddoe ein bod yn cyfrannu £12 miliwn i gynorthwyo benthyca digymorth yr awdurdodau lleol ar sail strategol o ran ein blaenoriaethau yr ydym yn eu rhannu. Mae hynny’n dangos fy ymrwymiad i fynd i’r afael yn uniongyrchol ag oblygiadau’r gyllideb gyfalaf sy’n gostwng.

Nick Ramsay: Minister, having listened to you, it seems that you are against any cuts whatsoever, which does make me question how you would reduce the debt at all, if the matter was left to you.

Nick Ramsay: Weinidog, ar ôl gwrando arnoch, mae’n ymddangos eich bod yn erbyn unrhyw doriadau o gwbl, sydd yn gwneud i mi gwestiynu sut y byddech chi’n lleihau’r ddyled o gwbl, pe rhoddid y mater yn eich dwylo chi.

With regard to the health budget, on 20 October, the Minister for health told the Health and Social Care Committee that she had stopped all schemes in light of service changes coming forward. Could we have some clarity on capital spend in the health budget in Wales? I know that regional Members for South Wales East, Lynne Neagle in Torfaen and I in Monmouthshire, have an interest in the progress of the new critical care centre in Llanfrechfa in Cwmbran. Aside from a broad commitment that those schemes are proceeding, there seems to be a lack of clarity at the moment, which I am sure that you would agree should to be dealt with by your Government.

O ran y gyllideb iechyd, ar 20 Hydref, dywedodd y Gweinidog iechyd wrth y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol ei bod hi wedi rhoi’r gorau i bob cynllun yn sgil y newidiadau gwasanaeth a oedd ar ddod. A allem ni gael rhywfaint o eglurder ar wariant cyfalaf yn y gyllideb iechyd yng Nghymru? Gwn fod gan Aelodau rhanbarthol dros Ddwyrain De Cymru, Lynne Neagle yn Nhorfaen a minnau yn sir Fynwy ddiddordeb yng nghynnydd y ganolfan gofal critigol newydd yn Llanfrechfa yng Nghwmbrân. Ar wahân i ymrwymiad eang bod y cynlluniau hynny’n mynd yn eu blaen, fe ymddangos bod diffyg eglurder ar hyn o bryd yr wyf yn siŵr y byddech yn cytuno y dylai eich Llywodraeth fynd i’r afael ag ef.

Jane Hutt: To clarify, on capital spend for the NHS, all the commitments that have been made—indeed, they are up to £700 million—and for which the contracts have been signed, in terms of that capital programme, are on site and on line for delivery. We have already mentioned the construction site that I visited recently in the University Hospital Llandough. We take no lessons from the Conservative-led UK Government in terms of how to handle the economic downturn. Your Government has failed to instigate an economic stimulus, and that is being looked upon by economists, as well as the business world, as a major failure. Let us in Wales manage our reduced budget appropriately and responsibly, because that is what we are doing.

Jane Hutt: I egluro, ar wariant cyfalaf ar gyfer y GIG, mae’r holl ymrwymiadau a wnaed—yn wir, maent hyd at £700 miliwn—ac y mae’r contractau ar eu cyfer wedi cael eu harwyddo, o ran y rhaglen gyfalaf, ar y safle ac ar y ffordd i gael eu cyflawni. Yr ydym eisoes wedi crybwyll y safle adeiladu yr ymwelais ag ef yn ddiweddar yn Ysbyty Athrofaol Llandochau. Ni dderbyniwn unrhyw wersi gan Lywodraeth y DU o dan arweiniad y Ceidwadwyr o ran sut i ymdrin â’r dirywiad economaidd. Mae eich Llywodraeth wedi methu â sbarduno ysgogiad economaidd, ac mae economegwyr, yn ogystal â’r byd busnes, yn ystyried hynny yn fethiant o bwys. Gadewch i ni yng Nghymru reoli ein cyllideb lai yn briodol ac yn gyfrifol, oherwydd dyna yr ydym yn ei wneud.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Weinidog, ni wnaf ddefnyddio’r cwestiwn hwn i’ch atgoffa eich bod wedi addo i etholwyr Cymru y byddech yn eu hamddiffyn rhag toriadau’r glymblaid yn San Steffan—yn amlwg, yr ydych wedi methu â gwneud hynny. Bydd y toriadau hyn yn effeithio ar addysg a thrafnidiaeth, yn ogystal ag iechyd. Pe bai Nick Ramsay yn diogelu’r buddsoddiadau cyfalaf ar gyfer iechyd, bydd hynny’n effeithio’n fwy ar drafnidiaeth ac addysg. A allwch chi roi sicrwydd y bydd pob un o’r meysydd hyn yn cael eu trin yn deg ac yn gyfartal, ac y bydd cyn lleied o doriadau â phosibl yn digwydd ym mhob un o’r meysydd hyn?

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Minister, I will not use this question to remind you that you promised the Welsh electorate that you would protect them from the cuts of the coalition in Westminster—you have obviously failed to do so. These cuts will impact on education and transport, as well as health. If Nick Ramsay were to protect capital investments in health, that would have an even greater impact on transport and education. Can you give an assurance that each of those areas will be treated fairly and equitably, and that as few cuts as possible will be made in each of those areas?

Jane Hutt: I am disappointed that you did not acknowledge my statement yesterday on the Wales infrastructure investment plan, which your leader acknowledged positively. I met business leaders last night, and the £90 million capital announcement has been warmly welcomed, in terms of the jobs coming into the construction sector and because we have moved so swiftly to assist local authorities. That will have an impact not only on transport, but ultimately on their capital programme, to lever in more funding for education as well. To go back to the draft Welsh Conservatives’ budget that we discussed last year, if you recall, there was a 12 to 20 per cent cut in education and an even greater cut in the environment, sustainability and housing portfolio. [Interruption.] I am sure that Rhodri Glyn Thomas will recognise that my announcement yesterday on funding for an all-Wales recyclable fund for empty properties, which puts empty houses into use for homeless people, has been widely welcomed.

Jane Hutt: Yr wyf yn siomedig na fu i chi gydnabod fy natganiad ddoe ar y cynllun buddsoddi yn seilwaith Cymru, fel y gwnaeth eich arweinydd yn gadarnhaol. Cyfarfûm ag arweinwyr busnes neithiwr, ac mae’r cyhoeddiad cyfalaf o £90 miliwn wedi cael croeso cynnes o ran y swyddi sy’n dod i mewn i’r sector adeiladu ac oherwydd ein bod wedi symud mor gyflym i helpu awdurdodau lleol. Bydd hynny’n cael effaith nid yn unig ar drafnidiaeth, ond yn y pen draw ar eu rhaglen gyfalaf, i ddenu mwy o arian ar gyfer addysg yn ogystal. I fynd yn ôl at gyllideb ddrafft y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig a drafodasom y llynedd, os cofiwch, yr oedd toriad o 12 y cant i 20 y cant mewn addysg a thoriad hyd yn oed yn fwy yn y portffolio amgylchedd, cynaliadwyedd a thai. [Torri ar draws.] Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd Rhodri Glyn Thomas yn cydnabod bod y cyhoeddiad a wneuthum ddoe ar gyllid ar gyfer cronfa ailgylchadwy Cymru gyfan ar gyfer eiddo gwag, sy’n defnyddio tai gwag ar gyfer pobl ddigartref, wedi cael croeso mawr.

The Presiding Officer: Order. I request that we do not have any muttering from the Conservative benches to my right during the next question. I am sure that we will not, because the next question is from Paul Davies.

Y Llywydd: Trefn. Gofynnaf am ddistawrwydd o ran unrhyw fwmian o feinciau’r Ceidwadwyr ar fy ochr dde yn ystod y cwestiwn nesaf. Yr wyf yn siŵr na fydd, oherwydd mae’r cwestiwn nesaf gan Paul Davies.

2.15 p.m.

Leanne Wood: Minister, at the launch of the Wales construction federation alliance last week, you underlined the importance of the construction industry and admitted that we do not have sufficient housing in Wales. You said that the construction industry can play a vital role in kick-starting the Welsh economy. On that, I agree with you, but it seems that some of your cabinet colleagues do not—otherwise, surely we would have seen plenty of capital programmes starting over the last six months, or ambitious targets would have been set for affordable housing. Will you press your views—which you shared at the Wales construction federation alliance last week—on your colleagues, in order to provide a much-needed stimulus to the Welsh economy?

Leanne Wood: Weinidog, yn lansiad cynghrair ffederasiwn adeiladu Cymru yr wythnos diwethaf, gwnaethoch danlinellu pwysigrwydd y diwydiant adeiladu a chyfaddef nad oes gennym ddigon o dai yng Nghymru. Dywedoch y gall y diwydiant adeiladu chwarae rhan hanfodol i roi hwb i economi Cymru. O ran hynny, cytunaf â chi, ond ymddengys nad yw rhai o’ch cyd-Aelodau yn y cabinet—fel arall, byddem wedi gweld digon o raglenni cyfalaf yn cychwyn dros y chwe mis diwethaf, neu byddai targedau uchelgeisiol wedi’u gosod ar gyfer tai fforddiadwy. A wnewch chi bwysleisio eich barn—y gwnaethoch ei rhannu yn y gynghrair ffederasiwn adeiladu Cymru wythnos diwethaf—i’ch cyd-Aelodau, er mwyn darparu ysgogiad mawr ei angen i economi Cymru?

Edwina Hart: My colleague the Minister for Housing, Regeneration and Heritage continued with the programme of the previous Government as regards investment and the development of new programmes. There will be a further announcement in due course.

Edwina Hart: Fe wnaeth fy nghyd-Aelod y Gweinidog Tai, Adfywio a Threftadaeth barhau â rhaglen y Llywodraeth flaenorol o ran buddsoddi a datblygu rhaglenni newydd. Bydd cyhoeddiad pellach maes o law.

David Rees: Are you as frustrated as I am when you see actions such as the early reduction in feed-in tariffs being undertaken by the UK Government, damaging businesses in Wales? Do you agree that this is an example of how we have established sectors in Wales and the economy only to see the building blocks that we have built up being torn down by the UK Government, led by the Tories?

David Rees: A ydych yn teimlo mor rhwystredig â mi pan welwch Llywodraeth y DU yn gostwng tariffau bwydo i mewn yn gynnar, sy’n niweidio busnesau yng Nghymru? A ydych yn cytuno fod hon yn enghraifft o sut rydym wedi sefydlu sectorau yng Nghymru a’r economi Cymru dim ond i weld y sylfeini rydym wedi’u gosod yn cael eu datgymalu gan Lywodraeth y DU, sy’n cael ei harwain gan y Torïaid?

Edwina Hart: The proposed feed-in tariff reduction will be of concern to many companies in Wales. My officials are working with those companies to offer every support.

Edwina Hart: Bydd y gostyngiad arfaethedig yn y tariff bwydo i mewn o bryder i lawer o gwmnïau yng Nghymru. Mae fy swyddogion yn gweithio gyda’r cwmnïau hynny i gynnig pob cymorth.

Antoinette Sandbach: Minister, European structural funds in Wales are seriously underperforming, and the Welsh European Funding Office has confirmed that they have substantially missed their targets for job and business creation, as well as for young people in training. I appreciate that these are problems that you have inherited from your predecessors, but do you not agree that it is time for a root-and-branch review of the use of structural funds, so that money is redirected to the projects that have the best prospects of creating new jobs?

Antoinette Sandbach: Weinidog, mae cronfeydd strwythurol Ewropeaidd yng Nghymru yn tangyflawni’n sylweddol, ac mae Swyddfa Cyllid Ewropeaidd Cymru wedi cadarnhau eu bod wedi methu eu targedau i greu swyddi a busnesau, yn ogystal ag ar gyfer pobl ifanc mewn hyfforddiant. Sylweddolaf mai problemau yr ydych wedi’u hetifeddu gan eich rhagflaenwyr yw’r rhain, ond a ydych yn cytuno ei bod yn bryd cynnal adolygiad o’r bôn i’r brig o ddefnydd y cronfeydd strwythurol, fel bod arian yn cael ei ailgyfeirio i’r prosiectau sydd â’r rhagolygon gorau o greu swyddi newydd?

Edwina Hart: I have every confidence that my Deputy Minister is dealing appropriately with all these matters and the direction of travel as we go to the next tranche of structural funds.

Edwina Hart: Mae gennyf bob ffydd bod fy Nirprwy Weinidog yn delio’n briodol â’r holl faterion hyn a’r trywydd wrth inni symud at y cylch nesaf o gronfeydd strwythurol.

Alun Ffred Jones: Mae gweithgynhyrchu yn un o flaenoriaethau’r cynllun adfywio economaidd, ond dros y blynyddoedd mae ei werth wedi gostwng yn sylweddol. Yr oedd cyfwerth â 30 y cant o gynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth ym Mhrydain yn 1979 ond erbyn hyn mae lawr i 11 y cant. Fodd bynnag, mae’n dal i fod yn uwch yng Nghymru, fel y gwyddoch. Gan bod hyn yn flaenoriaeth i’r Llywodraeth, pa gymorth ychwanegol fydd y Gweinidog yn ei gynnig i’r sector yn yr argyfwng economaidd presennol?

Alun Ffred Jones: Manufacturing is a priority for the economic renewal programme, but its value has decreased significantly over the years. It was worth 30 per cent of British gross domestic produce in 1979, but it is now down to 11 per cent. However, it is still worth more in Wales, as you know. Given that this is a Government priority, what additional assistance will the Minister provide for the sector in the current economic crisis?

Edwina Hart: It is important to recognise the basis for the support that we are giving. We are broadly giving greater support to industry, with the announcement of my packages last week.

Edwina Hart: Mae’n bwysig cydnabod y sail ar gyfer y cymorth yr ydym yn ei roi. Yn gyffredinol, rydym yn rhoi mwy o gymorth i’r diwydiant, gyda chyhoeddi fy mhecynnau wythnos diwethaf.

Aled Roberts: I attended the north Wales economic forum last Friday, and, clearly, the six north Wales authorities intend to work more closely together. In fact, as far as inward investment is concerned, the intention is to develop joint relationships between their economic development departments. Is there scope for the Welsh Government to look at its regional set-up to see whether it can work more closely with local authority economic development departments?

Aled Roberts: Mynychais fforwm economaidd gogledd Cymru ddydd Gwener diwethaf, ac, yn amlwg, mae chwe awdurdod gogledd Cymru’n bwriadu cydweithio’n agosach. Yn wir, o ran mewnfuddsoddi, y bwriad yw datblygu cysylltiadau ar y cyd rhwng eu hadrannau datblygu economaidd. A oes modd i Llywodraeth Cymru edrych ar ei drefn rhanbarthol i weld a all weithio’n agosach gydag adrannau datblygu economaidd awdurdodau lleol?

Edwina Hart: You will probably be aware that I have already had discussions with leaders in north Wales and indicated that, if they get their act together, I would be more than happy to look at my structures. I have had discussions with the Minister for Local Government and Communities. We can all provide assistance so that we get a whole economic development block focus between our officials and those of local government.

Edwina Hart: Byddwch fwy na thebyg yn gwybod fy mod eisoes wedi cael trafodaethau gydag arweinwyr yn y gogledd Cymru a dywedais y byddwn yn fwy na pharod i edrych ar fy strwythurau, os cânt well trefn ar bethau. Cefais drafodaethau gyda’r Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau. Gallwn oll ddarparu cymorth fel ein bod yn cael canolbwynt bloc datblygu economaidd cyfan rhwng ein swyddogion ni a rhai llywodraeth leol.

Nick Ramsay: On the subject of enterprise zones, there was a suggestion yesterday that the implementation of that policy is not proceeding as quickly as it might. I appreciate that there are also issues with the implementation of enterprise zones in England, but can you update us on implementation in Wales? When do you expect the whole process to be concluded, and for us to have the enterprise zones in place?

Nick Ramsay: O ran parthau menter, cafwyd awgrym ddoe nad yw’r polisi hwnnw yn cael ei gyflwyno mor gyflym ag y gallai. Sylweddolaf fod problemau hefyd gyda chyflwyno parthau menter yn Lloegr, ond a allwch ein diweddaru ar waith yng Nghymru? Pryd ydych yn disgwyl i’r broses gyfan ddod i ben, ac i ni gael y parthau menter yn eu lle?

Edwina Hart: I issued a letter this week to further update Members. We are still having ongoing discussions with our partners at Treasury, but I hope that these enterprise zones will be live in April 2012.

Edwina Hart: Cyhoeddais lythyr yr wythnos hon i roi’r diweddaraf i Aelodau. Rydym yn dal i drafod gyda’n partneriaid yn y Trysorlys, ond gobeithio y bydd y parthau menter hyn yn weithredol ym mis Ebrill 2012.

Nick Ramsay: I am pleased to hear that, because the enterprise zones policy—which we on this side have warmly welcomed, and would have liked to see sooner—will be key to businesses. Are there any particular enterprise zones that you envisage being established first? Is there a pecking order, as it were? To follow on from the question earlier, do you consider that all of those sectors will be adequately represented?

Nick Ramsay: Yr wyf yn falch o glywed hynny, gan fod y polisi parthau menter—yr ydym ni ar yr ochr hon yn ei groesawu’n gynnes, ac y byddem wedi hoffi ei weld ynghynt—yn allweddol i fusnesau. A ydych yn rhagweld y bydd unrhyw barthau menter penodol yn cael eu sefydlu yn gyntaf? A oes trefn flaenoriaeth, fel petai? I ddilyn ymlaen o’r cwestiwn yn gynharach, a ydych yn credu y bydd pob un o’r sectorau hynny’n cael eu cynrychioli’n ddigonol?

Edwina Hart: As I have indicated in previous responses, not all the sectors agree with the concept of enterprise zones. Obviously, I will have to consider their views further. However, I can indicate that we will be moving policy with our partners as soon as possible, and I hope that the first tranche of enterprise zones will be available from 2012.

Edwina Hart: Fel y dywedais mewn ymatebion blaenorol, nid yw pob sector yn cytuno â’r cysyniad o barth menter. Yn amlwg, bydd yn rhaid imi ystyried eu barn ymhellach. Fodd bynnag, gallaf ddweud y byddwn yn symud ymlaen gyda’r polisi gyda’n partneriaid cyn gynted â phosibl, a gobeithio y bydd y parthau menter cyntaf ar gael o 2012.

Vaughan Gething: Minister, I am sure that you will share my disappointment at the decision to sell Northern Rock at a massive loss to the taxpayer of between £400 million and £600 million, as opposed to returning it to the mutual sector. I am interested in policy in Wales on that sector. Do you plan to establish a co-operative and mutual commission?

Vaughan Gething: Weinidog, yr wyf yn siŵr y byddwch yn rhannu fy siom am y penderfyniad i werthu Northern Rock ar golled enfawr i’r trethdalwr o tua £400 miliwn i £600 miliwn, yn hytrach na’i ddychwelyd i’r sector cydfuddiannol. Mae gennyf ddiddordeb mewn polisi yng Nghymru ar y sector hwnnw. A ydych yn bwriadu sefydlu comisiwn cydweithredol a chydfuddiannol?

Edwina Hart: The UK Government’s decision to sell Northern Rock is a non-devolved matter, but on my responsibilities regarding co-operatives and mutuals, I advised the Welsh social enterprise conference on 16 November that I was considering setting up a commission to look at that.

Edwina Hart: Mae penderfyniad Llywodraeth y DU i werthu Northern Rock yn fater na ddatganolwyd, ond o ran fy nghyfrifoldebau am fudiadau cydweithredol a chydfuddiannau, dywedais wrth y gynhadledd mentrau cymdeithasol Cymru ar 16 Tachwedd fy mod yn ystyried sefydlu comisiwn i edrych ar hynny.

Eluned Parrott: Does the Minister agree that it is vital for our economy to have a clear, cohesive, overarching strategy to deliver economic growth for Wales?

Eluned Parrott: A yw’r Gweinidog yn cytuno ei bod yn hanfodol i’n economi gael strategaeth gyffredinol glir a chydlynol er mwyn tyfu economi Cymru?

Edwina Hart: Yes, and I have one.

Edwina Hart: Ydw, ac mae gennyf un.

Eluned Parrott: That is wonderful news. I am sure that you will recognise that businesses need stability and leadership in order to be able to work with us, but we have six key sectors that have become nine; we have a manufacturing strategy with no detail or targets; we have five enterprise zones—or maybe more—but no detail about what they will comprise; we have consultations with city regions, but no signal as to how you intend them to work with the sectors, zones and strategies. You have blown holes in the economic renewal programme, but you have not replaced it with anything else. So, my question is: how do you expect businesses to respond to an economic strategy that has never been stated, and which appears to keep changing?

Eluned Parrott: Dyna newyddion gwych. Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddwch yn cydnabod bod angen sefydlogrwydd ac arweinyddiaeth ar fusnesau fel eu bod yn gallu gweithio gyda ni, ond mae gennym chwe sector allweddol sydd bellach yn naw; mae gennym strategaeth weithgynhyrchu heb fanylion na thargedau; mae gennym bum ardal menter—neu fwy efallai—ond dim manylion am beth fydd eu cynnwys; mae gennym ymgynghoriadau â dinas-ranbarthau, ond dim arwydd sut y bwriadwch iddynt weithio gyda’r sectorau, y parthau a’r strategaethau. Rydych wedi amlygu gwendidau yn rhaglen adnewyddu’r economi, ond nid ydych wedi rhoi rhywbeth arall yn ei lle. Felly, fy nghwestiwn yw: sut ydych yn disgwyl i fusnesau ymateb i strategaeth economaidd na chafodd ei gyhoeddi, ac sy’n edrych fel pe bai’n newid o hyd?

Edwina Hart: Businesses appear to understand my economic strategy quite well, and have broadly welcomed everything that I have done. There are no holes in the economic renewal strategy—I have based all the policy on the start that we had with the establishment of the sectors by the previous Deputy First Minister, with which I am continuing. What I am doing is enhancing that area, looking at the current economic climate.

Edwina Hart: Mae’n ymddangos fod busnesau’n deall fy strategaeth economaidd yn eithaf da, ac wedi croesawu popeth a wneuthum, ar y cyfan. Nid oes unrhyw wendid yn y strategaeth adnewyddu economaidd—yr wyf wedi seilio pob polisi ar y dechrau a gawsom gyda sefydlu’r sectorau gan y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog blaenorol, ac yr wyf yn parhau â hynny. Yr hyn yr wyf yn ei wneud yw ehangu’r maes hwnnw, ac edrych ar yr hinsawdd economaidd bresennol.

Kenneth Skates: I recently attended the 2010-11 Apprenticeship Awards Cymru, organised by the National Training Federation for Wales, and I was delighted by the evening. It was a very good night for Clwyd South, because Chirk manufacturer Kronospan picked up the large employer of the year award, and two of my constituents, Richard Wilkins and Steven Roberts, collected coveted apprenticeship of the year awards. Would you not agree that encouraging local firms to invest time and effort in good apprenticeship schemes is one of the most important drivers of future economic growth, and that this Government is committed to helping to develop more apprenticeship places in the coming years?

Kenneth Skates: Yn ddiweddar, mynychais Wobrau Prentisiaethau Cymru 2010-11, a drefnwyd gan Ffederasiwn Hyfforddiant Cenedlaethol Cymru, ac roeddwn wrth fy modd gyda’r noson. Yr oedd yn noson dda iawn i Dde Clwyd, oherwydd enillodd gwneuthurwr o’r Waun, Kronospan, wobr cyflogwr mawr y flwyddyn, ac fe wnaeth dau o’m hetholwyr, Richard Wilkins a Steven Roberts, ennill gwobrau prentisiaeth o fri’r flwyddyn. Oni fyddech yn cytuno bod annog busnesau lleol i fuddsoddi amser ac ymdrech mewn cynlluniau prentisiaeth da yn un o’r ffactorau pwysicaf o ran twf economaidd yn y dyfodol, a bod y Llywodraeth hon yn ymrwymedig i helpu i ddatblygu mwy o leoedd prentisiaeth yn y blynyddoedd i ddod?

Edwina Hart: I obviously concur with all your comments, and I work very closely with my colleagues in education, Leighton Andrews and Jeff Cuthbert, because we consider the apprenticeship programmes to be one of the key drivers for economic growth in Wales.

Edwina Hart: Yn amlwg, cytunaf â’ch holl sylwadau, ac yr wyf yn gweithio’n agos iawn gyda’m cydweithwyr yn y maes addysg, Leighton Andrews a Jeff Cuthbert, gan ein bod yn ystyried y rhaglenni prentisiaeth yn un o’r ysgogwyr allweddol ar gyfer twf economaidd yng Nghymru.

Simon Thomas: Has the Minister had the opportunity to look at the Nominet report on the use of a high-level domain name for the marketing of Wales and tourism in west Wales, for example? That report strongly supports having .cymru and .wales domain names, and there is a great deal of interest by tourism businesses in marketing themselves internationally using those names. What support can she give from the Government to ensure that that happens?

Simon Thomas: A gafodd y Gweinidog gyfle i edrych ar yr adroddiad Nominet ar ddefnyddio enw parth lefel uchel i farchnata Cymru a thwristiaeth yn y gorllewin, er enghraifft? Mae’r adroddiad hwnnw’n cefnogi’n gryf cael enwau parth .cymru a .wales, ac mae diddordeb mawr gan fusnesau twristiaeth mewn marchnata eu hunain gan ddefnyddio’r enwau hynny’n rhyngwladol. Pa gymorth y gall hi ei roi gan y Llywodraeth i sicrhau bod hynny’n digwydd?

Edwina Hart: I am currently exploring the issue that you raise with me about the .wales and .cymru domain names. I will return to the issue and advise Members when any decisions are made by the Government.

Edwina Hart: Yr wyf ar hyn o bryd yn ymchwilio’r mater yr ydych yn ei godi gyda mi am yr enwau parth .cymru a .wales. Byddaf yn dychwelyd at y mater ac yn hysbysu’r Aelodau pan wneir unrhyw benderfyniadau gan y Llywodraeth.

Bethan Jenkins: You will know that Ashford Price is the owner of Dan-yr-Ogof showcave at the National Showcaves Centre for Wales near Abercrave and that people in my region work there. He has told me that the tourism industry in Wales is not fit for purpose and that his business has had to look to other countries, such as France, to develop markets and gain expertise due to the planning issues surrounding the Brecon Beacons National Park. Does the Minister’s department also look outside of Wales’s borders for ideas on how to develop the tourism industry, particularly in relation to planning? What examples can the Minister give us of outside best practice that would benefit all of Wales as well as the region of South Wales West?

Bethan Jenkins: Fe wyddoch mai Ashford Price yw perchennog ogofâu Dan-yr-Ogof yng Nghanolfan Ogofâu Arddangos Cenedlaethol Cymru ger Aber-craf a bod pobl yn fy rhanbarth yn gweithio yno. Dywedodd wrthyf nad yw’r diwydiant twristiaeth yng Nghymru yn addas at y diben a bod ei fusnes wedi gorfod edrych i wledydd eraill, megis Ffrainc, i ddatblygu marchnadoedd a chael arbenigedd oherwydd y materion cynllunio sy’n gysylltiedig â Pharc Cenedlaethol Bannau Brycheiniog. A yw adran y Gweinidog hefyd yn edrych y tu hwnt i ffiniau Cymru am syniadau o ran sut i ddatblygu’r diwydiant twristiaeth, yn enwedig o ran cynllunio? Pa enghreifftiau a all y Gweinidog roi inni o arferion gorau o’r tu allan a fyddai o fudd i bob rhan o Gymru yn ogystal â rhanbarth Gorllewin De Cymru?

Edwina Hart: Individual tourism operators are entitled to their own opinions on these matters. I am sure that my colleague the Minister for Environment and Sustainable Development, who has responsibility for planning, has heard your comments about planning policy. Planning issues are raised as a matter of concern within the tourism sector and I know that my sector panel is aware of those issues.

Edwina Hart: Mae gan fusnesau twristiaeth unigol hawl i’w barn eu hun ar y materion hyn. Yr wyf yn siŵr bod fy nghyd-Aelod, Gweinidog yr Amgylchedd a Datblygu Cynaliadwy, sydd â chyfrifoldeb dros gynllunio, wedi clywed eich sylwadau am bolisi cynllunio. Codir materion cynllunio fel mater o bryder o fewn y sector twristiaeth, a gwn fod fy mhanel sector yn ymwybodol o’r materion hynny.

Ieuan Wyn Jones: Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog. Byddwch yn ymwybodol mai eiddo i Alwminiwm Môn oedd tir Parc Cybi ar un cyfnod. Mae safle presennol Alwminiwm Môn hefyd yn ardal y gobeithiwn ei gweld yn datblygu i greu nifer fawr o swyddi. Yr ydym yn falch iawn bod cytundeb wedi dod i’r fei a fydd yn golygu y bydd nifer fawr o swyddi’n cael eu creu ar y safle. A all y Gweinidog roi addewid i’r Cynulliad heddiw y bydd hi a’i swyddogion yn gweithio gyda pherchnogion presennol y safle i sicrhau, pan fydd y berchnogaeth yn trosglwyddo, y bydd unrhyw gynlluniau sy’n gofyn am fuddsoddiad yno yn derbyn ei chefnogaeth hi a chefnogaeth ei hadran, fel ein bod yn macsimeiddio’r cyfle i gael cyflogaeth mewn ardal sydd wedi dioddef cymaint o golli swyddi dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf?

Ieuan Wyn Jones: Thank you for your reply, Minister. You will be aware that the Parc Cybi land was at one time owned by Anglesey Aluminium. The current site of Anglesey Aluminium is also an area that we hope will be developed to create a great number of jobs. We are very pleased that an agreement has been reached that will mean that a great number of jobs will be created on that site. Can the Minister give the Assembly a pledge today that she and her officials will work with the current owners of the site to ensure that, when ownership is transferred, any plans requiring investment will receive her support and the support of her department, so that we maximise employment opportunities in an area that has suffered such a great loss of jobs over the past few years?

Edwina Hart: I thank the local Member for his support with regard to Parc Cybi. It is important to recognise that there is still a substantial amount of work to be done in the area. I very much take on board his points about working with any new owners, and if it is possible, with regard to any business plans that come to me, we will continue our support for the island.

Edwina Hart: Diolch i’r Aelod lleol am ei gefnogaeth parthed Parc Cybi. Mae’n bwysig cydnabod bod dal angen gwneud gwaith sylweddol yn yr ardal. Rwy’n derbyn ei bwyntiau am weithio gyda pherchnogion newydd, ac, os yw’n bosibl, o ran unrhyw gynlluniau busnes a ddaw i mi, byddwn yn parhau â’n cefnogaeth i’r ynys.

2.30 p.m.

Keith Davies: Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog. Mae Llafur yn San Steffan wedi cyhoeddi cynllun economaidd sy’n cynnwys pum pwynt. Ydy’r Gweinidog yn cytuno mai dyma yw’r ffordd orau ymlaen i roi hwb i’r economi a chreu swyddi?

Keith Davies: Thank you for that response, Minister. Labour at Westminster has announced an economic plan that contains five points. Does the Minister agree that this is the best way forward in order to boost the economy and create jobs?

Edwina Hart: I am determined to do all I can to help businesses in Wales to get through these difficult economic times. That is why I announced the £55 million business funding last week, why my colleague is setting up the jobs growth fund to create thousands of jobs for unemployed young people and why we are investing in capital projects, as announced by the Minister for finance yesterday.

Edwina Hart: Yr wyf yn benderfynol o wneud popeth yn fy ngallu i helpu busnesau yng Nghymru ddod drwy’r amseroedd economaidd anodd hyn. Dyna pam y cyhoeddais £55 miliwn o arian busnes yr wythnos diwethaf, pam mae fy nghyd-Aelod yn sefydlu cronfa twf swyddi i greu miloedd o swyddi i bobl ifanc di-waith a pham ein bod yn buddsoddi mewn prosiectau cyfalaf, fel y cyhoeddodd y Gweinidog Cyllid ddoe.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Weinidog, fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol bod cwmni Yodel wedi cyhoeddi’r wythnos hon ei fod yn cau tri depo: un yng Nghaerdydd, un yn sir Fôn, ac un yng Nghapel Hendre yn fy etholaeth i. Mae 130 o swyddi yn mynd i gyd, gan gynnwys 26 yng Nghapel Hendre. A ydych yn cytuno, Weinidog, yn ogystal â chreu cyfleoedd newydd am swyddi—mae parc diwydiannol wedi ei gyhoeddi ar gyfer Cross Hands wrth ymyl fy etholaeth—ei bod hi’n hollbwysig ein bod yn ceisio amddiffyn a chadw’r swyddi sydd gennym eisoes, fel y gwnaethpwyd gan y Llywodraeth flaenorol drwy gynlluniau ReAct a ProAct?

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Minister, you will be aware that Yodel has this week announced that it intend to close three depots: one in Cardiff, one in Anglesey, and one in Capel Hendre in my constituency. A total of 130 jobs will be lost, including 26 at Capel Hendre. Do you agree, Minister, that in addition to creating new opportunities for jobs—and an industrial park has already been announced for Cross Hands, which borders my constituency—it is vital that we try to protect and retain those jobs that we already have, as was done by the previous Government via the ReAct and ProAct schemes?

Edwina Hart: I concur with you, absolutely. It is about job retention as well as getting new jobs in. That is why I am so pleased that some of the funding that we have announced will allow companies to bid to us for additional resources to help them to buy new machinery and new things to keep them on top of their game. It is important that we realise the economic situation that we are in now, and we have to be better in relation to our policy and what we put in to help and assist those companies.

Edwina Hart: Cytunaf yn llwyr. Mae’n ymwneud â chadw swyddi yn ogystal â denu rhai newydd. Dyna pam yr wyf mor falch bod rhywfaint o’r arian yr ydym wedi ei gyhoeddi yn galluogi cwmnïau i wneud cais i ni am adnoddau ychwanegol i’w helpu i brynu peiriannau ac offer newydd i’w cadw ar flaen y gad. Mae’n bwysig inni sylweddoli y sefyllfa economaidd yr ydym ynddi yn awr, a rhaid i’n polisi fod yn well o ran a’r hyn yr ydym yn ei roi mewn er mwyn helpu a chynorthwyo’r cwmnïau hynny.

Ieuan Wyn Jones: Yn sgîl y ffaith nad atebodd y Gweinidog cyllid y cwestiwn yn flaenorol y prynhawn yma, a all y Gweinidog gadarnhau mai’r swm sydd yn y gyllideb ar gyfer parthau datblygu y flwyddyn nesaf ydy £0.76 miliwn?

Ieuan Wyn Jones: Given that the Minister for finance did not answer the question previously this afternoon, can the Minister confirm that the budget allocation for enterprise zones next year stands at £0.76 million?

Edwina Hart: The issues around the budget are quite clear in relation to what is currently in the budget. However, we have to recognise that the funding for enterprise zones is not just a matter for my budget. I am having extremely constructive discussions with my colleague Carl Sargeant about the delivery of transport needs around enterprise zones, and with my colleagues in education about training packages that will be available. This is a collective movement by the Government on how it will respond to enterprise zones. As soon as I have more detail available, I assure you that I will allow Members to have it.

Edwina Hart: Mae’r materion am y gyllideb yn eithaf clir mewn perthynas â’r hyn sydd yn y gyllideb ar hyn o bryd. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni gydnabod nad yw cyllid ar gyfer parthau menter yn fater i fy nghyllideb i yn unig. Yr wyf yn cael trafodaethau adeiladol iawn gyda fy nghyd-Aelod, Carl Sargeant ynglŷn â diwallu anghenion trafnidiaeth o amgylch parthau menter, a chyda fy nghyd-Aelodau addysg am y pecynnau hyfforddi a fydd ar gael. Gwaith ar y cyd yw hwn gan y Llywodraeth ar sut y bydd yn ymateb i barthau menter. Cyn gynted ag y bydd gen i fwy o fanylion, gallaf eich sicrhau y byddaf yn gadael i Aelodau eu cael.

William Graham: Minister, when you are considering these proposed enterprise zones and their funding, will you take account of the pressures that will be placed on Blaenau Gwent, in particular, given that enterprise zones have already been proposed for Herefordshire and Bristol.

William Graham: Weinidog, pan fyddwch yn ystyried y parthau menter arfaethedig hyn a’u cyllid, a wnewch chi ystyried y pwysau a roddir ar Flaenau Gwent, yn benodol, o gofio bod parthau menter wedi’u cynnig eisoes ar gyfer Swydd Henffordd a Bryste.

Edwina Hart: That was one of my considerations when I looked at the issue around Blaenau Gwent, and I thank the Member for raising it.

Edwina Hart: Roedd hynny’n un o fy ystyriaethau pan edrychais ar y mater o amgylch Blaenau Gwent, a diolchaf i’r Aelod am ei godi.

Peter Black: Minister, you will know that there has been some interest in establishing an enterprise zone in Swansea, based around the life sciences and nanotechnology facilities, and possibly, the second campus for Swansea University. I know that you have given some indication that you are considering future enterprise zones. Can you give some indication of your timescale in terms of coming to a conclusion as to when, if any, additional enterprise zones will be introduced in Wales?

Peter Black: Weinidog, fe wyddoch y bu rhywfaint o ddiddordeb mewn sefydlu parth menter yn Abertawe, yn seiliedig ar y cyfleusterau gwyddorau bywyd a nanodechnoleg, ac o bosibl, ail gampws ar gyfer Prifysgol Abertawe. Gwn eich bod wedi rhoi rhyw arwydd eich bod yn ystyried mwy o barthau menter yn y dyfodol. A allwch roi rhyw arwydd o’ch amserlen o ran dod i gasgliad am pa bryd, os o gwbl, y cyflwynir parthau menter ychwanegol yng Nghymru?

Edwina Hart: I hope to come to a conclusion before we enter recess.

Edwina Hart: Gobeithiaf ddod i gasgliad cyn inni ddechrau’r toriad.

Edwina Hart: When I was considering the three new sectors, I was concerned whether we would have the level of expertise and the ability to have proper engagement with the boards and to feed information in. I am content now that we are on the right line with the resources that we have got to support them, but perhaps we will have the opportunity of seconding people from elsewhere in industry to help us with some of the work in the sectors.

Edwina Hart: Pan oeddwn yn ystyried y tri sector newydd, yr oeddwn yn bryderus a fyddai gennym y lefel o arbenigedd a’r gallu i ymgysylltu’n briodol gyda’r byrddau ac i fwydo gwybodaeth i mewn. Yr wyf yn fodlon ein bod bellach ar y trywydd cywir gyda’r adnoddau sydd gennym i’w cefnogi, ond efallai y bydd gennym gyfle i secondio pobl o ddiwydiannau eraill i’n helpu gyda rhywfaint o’r gwaith yn y sectorau.

Llyr Huws Gruffydd: Yr wyf yn siŵr ein bod ni i gyd yn awyddus i groesawu penodiad diweddar cadeirydd panel newydd y sector bwyd a ffermio. A wnewch chi gadarnhau a oes swyddog wedi’i benodi i arwain tîm y sector hwnnw? Os felly, pwy yw’r swyddog hwnnw?

Llyr Huws Gruffydd: I am sure that we are all eager to welcome the recent appointment of the chair of the new food and farming sector panel. Can you confirm whether an official has been appointed to lead the sector team? If such an appointment has been made, can you tell us who that individual will be?

Edwina Hart: The main lead in helping the sector team will be in agriculture. I had the opportunity of meeting the chair of the panel this morning to discuss the panel’s likely direction of travel. I do not set down the direction of travel in the sector; it set its own direction. Wynford James was the official who attended the meeting this morning, and he will be taking a leading role in terms of the development of the programme for the sector.

Edwina Hart: O fewn amaethyddiaeth, yn bennaf, y daw yr arweinyddiaeth i helpu tîm y sector. Cefais gyfle i gyfarfod â chadeirydd y panel bore yma i drafod cyfeiriad tebygol y panel. Nid fi sy’n gosod cyfeiriad y sector; mae’n gosod cyfeiriad ei hun. Y swyddog a fynychodd y cyfarfod y bore yma oedd Wynford James, a bydd yn arwain o ran datblygu’r rhaglen ar gyfer y sector.

Yr Arglwydd Elis-Thomas: Weinidog, gwyddoch fy mod yn gwerthfawrogi eich ymweliad yn gynharach eleni â bwrdd trosolwg safle dadgomisiynu niwclear Trawsfynydd, yr wyf yn ei gadeirio. Wrth ichi ystyried rhaglen o barthau menter at y dyfodol, a wnewch chi gadw mewn cof a phwysleisio’r ffaith i’ch swyddogion, pan fyddwch yn blaenoriaethu, fod argyfwng economaidd difrifol yn wynebu’r safle hwn oherwydd nifer y peirianwyr llawn sgiliau sydd wedi gweithio yno am gyhyd. Mae angen gweithredu ar fyrder er mwyn creu cyflogaeth newydd yn y safle hwn.

Lord Elis-Thomas: Minister, you will know that I appreciated your visit earlier this year to the board with oversight of the Trawsfynydd nuclear decommissioning site, which I chair. As you consider a programme of enterprise zones for the future, will you bear in mind and ensure that your officials are aware, when any prioritisation takes place, that a serious economic crisis is facing this site because of the number of highly skilled engineers who have worked there for so long. There is a need to act urgently in order to create new employment at that site.

Edwina Hart: In the same way as I have asked my officials to prepare a submission on detailed proposals for Newport Unlimited and Newport city, I have also asked them to do the same in relation to that site.

Edwina Hart: Yn yr un modd ag y gofynnais i’m swyddogion baratoi cyflwyniad ar gynigion manwl i Newport Unlimited a dinas Casnewydd, gofynnais hefyd iddynt wneud yr un peth mewn perthynas â’r safle hwnnw.

Mark Isherwood: Innovation has traditionally been understood to be limited to research and development for the purpose of the development of new technology. However, more recently, design is getting recognition around the world as a driver of innovation in industry, services and society. In fact, the European Commission’s Innovation Union strategy identifies design as a key discipline for innovation as a bridge between fundamental research and development and the marketplace. Given that regions and nations across the world are increasingly embracing design as a key element of their innovation, policies and programmes, what action are you taking to ensure that Wales integrates design into key economic development and innovation policies in future?

Mark Isherwood: Deallwyd bod arloesi yn draddodiadol wedi’i gyfyngu i ymchwil a datblygu er mwyn datblygu technoleg newydd. Fodd bynnag, yn fwy diweddar, mae dylunio yn cael cydnabyddiaeth ledled y byd fel sbardun i arloesi mewn diwydiant, gwasanaethau a chymdeithas. Yn wir, mae strategaeth Undeb Arloesi’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd yn nodi bod dylunio yn ddisgyblaeth allweddol ar gyfer arloesi fel pont rhwng ymchwil a datblygu sylfaenol a’r farchnad. O gofio bod rhanbarthau a gwledydd ar draws y byd fwyfwy yn ystyried dylunio fel elfen allweddol o’u harloesi, polisïau a rhaglenni, pa gamau ydych yn eu cymryd i sicrhau bod Cymru’n integreiddio dylunio mewn polisïau datblygu economaidd ac arloesi allweddol yn y dyfodol?

Edwina Hart: I certainly concur with your comments, and I will ensure that these matters are explored fully by my officials in giving me advice on this issue.

Edwina Hart: Cytunaf yn llwyr â’ch sylwadau, a byddaf yn sicrhau y caiff y materion hyn ystyriaeth lawn gan fy swyddogion wrth iddynt fy nghynghori ar y mater hwn.

Jocelyn Davies: Minister, I noticed that you recently set up a fund that recognises the importance of the commercialisation of research, development and innovation. How much is in that fund, and how will the grants be awarded?

Jocelyn Davies: Weinidog, sylwais eich bod wedi sefydlu cronfa yn ddiweddar sy’n cydnabod pwysigrwydd masnacheiddio ymchwil, datblygu ac arloesi. Faint sydd yn y gronfa honno, a sut bydd y grantiau’n cael eu dyfarnu?

Edwina Hart: I will send out details to Members if it will be helpful to them in dealing with their constituents.

Edwina Hart: Fe wnaf anfon manylion i Aelodau os bydd hynny’n ddefnyddiol iddynt wrth ddelio â’u hetholwyr.

2.45 p.m.

Edwina Hart: I have very much taken to heart the representations that I have had about the Government putting money into the system to assist SMEs. I know a lot of SMEs out there are ready, waiting and able to put in applications. I have to get the money out of the door, which explains the tight timetable. We have put additional staff resources in so that we can give help and advice to anyone coming forward, and we think that we can do the necessary turnaround. I have not had any formal representations from any group about the timescale.

Edwina Hart: Rwyf wedi cymryd o ddifri y sylwadau a gefais am y Llywodraeth yn rhoi arian yn y system i gynorthwyo busnesau bach a chanolig eu maint. Gwn fod llawer o fusnesau bach a chanolig eu maint yn barod i gyflwyno ceisiadau, yn aros i  wneud hynny ac yn gallu ei wneud. Mae’n rhaid imi gael yr arian allan, sy’n esbonio’r amserlen dynn. Yr ydym wedi dyrannu staff ychwanegol fel y gallwn roi cymorth a chyngor i unrhyw un sydd am wneud cais, ac yr ydym yn meddwl y gallwn gwblhau’r gwaith yn ôl yr amserlen. Nid wyf wedi cael unrhyw sylwadau ffurfiol gan unrhyw grŵp am yr amserlen.

Alun Ffred Jones: Mae’r cynllun rhyddhad ardrethi busnes ar hyn o bryd yn cael ei ariannu’n gyfan gwbl gan y Trysorlys. Gan wybod bod y Canghellor yn gwneud datganiad yr wythnos nesaf ar ei gynlluniau ariannol, a ydych wedi cysylltu ag ef i bwyso arno i barhau â’r cynllun hwnnw, y mae cymaint o fusnesau bach yn ei werthfawrogi?

Alun Ffred Jones: The current business rate relief scheme is wholly funded by the Treasury. Given that the Chancellor will be making a statement next week on his financial plans, have you contacted him to urge him to continue that scheme, which so many small businesses appreciate?

Edwina Hart: I have not personally spoken to the Chancellor, but I await with interest his statement, which I hope will be good news.

Edwina Hart: Nid wyf wedi siarad yn bersonol â’r Canghellor, ond yr wyf yn aros am ei ddatganiad gyda diddordeb, a fydd yn newyddion da gobeithio.

Mohammad Asghar: Minister, the task and finish group exploring city regions is due to report back to you in the new year. After it makes its recommendations, what are your immediate intentions in terms of future discussions? Will there be any consultation or wider debate to allow various stakeholders to scrutinise and give feedback on the findings, ensuring that you make a decision that is as informed and transparent as possible?

Mohammad Asghar: Weinidog, mae’r grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen sy’n edrych ar ddinas- ranbarthau dinas i fod i adrodd yn ôl ichi yn y flwyddyn newydd. Ar ôl iddo wneud ei argymhellion, beth yw eich bwriadau nesaf o ran trafodaethau yn y dyfodol? A fydd unrhyw ymgynghori neu drafodaeth ehangach  i alluogi rhanddeiliaid amrywiol i graffu a rhoi adborth ar y canfyddiadau, gan sicrhau eich bod yn gwneud penderfyniad mor hyddysg a thryloyw â phosibl?

Edwina Hart: It is important to recognise that the task and finish group was established to give an element of independence, so that it was not a discussion held internally within the civil service and among Ministers. I hope that Members will acknowledge that the membership of that group should give us that opportunity. I will make a decision about what I will do with the report when I receive it. However, I see no reason why that report would not be put into the public domain.

Edwina Hart: Mae’n bwysig cydnabod y cafodd y grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen ei sefydlu i roi elfen o annibyniaeth, fel nad oedd yn drafodaeth fewnol yn y gwasanaeth sifil ac ymhlith Gweinidogion. Gobeithio y bydd yr Aelodau’n cydnabod y dylai aelodaeth y grŵp hwnnw roi’r cyfle hwnnw inni. Byddaf yn penderfynu beth i’w wneud gyda’r adroddiad ar ôl i mi ei gael. Fodd bynnag, ni welaf unrhyw reswm pam na ddylai’r adroddiad hwnnw fod ar gael i’r cyhoedd.

Cwestiwn Brys
Urgent Question

E. coli yn Abertawe
E. coli in Swansea

Peter Black: Pa gamau y mae’r Gweinidog yn eu cymryd yn dilyn marwolaeth dau faban o ganlyniad i haint E. coli yn Abertawe? EAQ(4)0055(HSS)

Peter Black: What action is the Minister taking following the death of two babies from an E. coli infection in Swansea? EAQ(4)0055(HSS)

The Minister for Health and Social Services (Lesley Griffiths): First, I send my heartfelt condolences to the bereaved families. I have been assured that Abertawe Bro Morgannwg University Local Health Board and Public Health Wales implemented stringent infection prevention and control measures as soon as cross-infection was suspected in order to prevent further cases. Singleton maternity unit remains open to full-term babies, but closed to premature babies. I met the chair of the ABMU health board this morning, and will discuss the outcomes and recommendations of its internal investigation with him in due course. ABMU has asked Healthcare Inspectorate Wales to conduct an external review, which I welcome. I ask that we respect the privacy of the bereaved families.

Y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (Lesley Griffiths): Yn gyntaf, yr wyf yn cydymdeimlo’n ddidwyll â’r teuluoedd mewn profedigaeth. Yr wyf wedi cael sicrwydd fod Bwrdd Iechyd Lleol Prifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg ac Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru wedi gweithredu mesurau llym i atal a rheoli heintiau cyn gynted ag yr oedd amheuaeth bod croes-heintio er mwyn atal achosion pellach. Mae uned famolaeth Singleton yn dal ar agor i fabanod tymor-llawn, ond ar gau i fabanod cynamserol. Cyfarfûm â chadeirydd bwrdd iechyd ABMU y bore yma, a byddaf yn trafod canlyniadau ac argymhellion ei ymchwiliad mewnol gydag ef maes o law. Mae ABMU wedi gofyn i Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru gynnal adolygiad allanol, a chroesawaf hynny. Gofynnaf i ni barchu preifatrwydd y teuluoedd mewn profedigaeth.

Peter Black: Thank you for that answer, Minister. I also offer my condolences to the families of the babies. It is a terrible tragedy. I ask for there to be a swift resolution to the inquiry in order to reassure prospective parents about the safety of this unit. That is very important to ensure that people regain confidence in the use of Singleton Hospital maternity unit. I also ask you to look more widely at infection control at the maternity unit and at Singleton Hospital. I have been approached by one parent who gave birth at that unit who told me that, when she was there, the conditions were pretty poor and there was blood on the floor in the toilets. Therefore, it is clear that, at some stage in the past, there have been issues in that unit that have not been addressed properly. What arrangements are in place for complex and non-full-term births? Will parents be sent to Bridgend? How long do you envisage that that will go on?

Peter Black: Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Yr wyf hefyd yn cydymdeimlo â theuluoedd y babanod. Mae’n drasiedi ofnadwy. Gofynnaf am gau pen y mwdwl yn gyflym ar yr ymchwiliad er mwyn tawelu meddwl darpar rieni am ddiogelwch yr uned hon. Mae hynny’n bwysig iawn i sicrhau bod pobl yn adennill hyder o ran defnyddio uned famolaeth Ysbyty Singleton. Yr wyf hefyd yn gofyn ichi edrych yn ehangach ar reoli heintiau yn yr uned famolaeth ac yn Ysbyty Singleton. Mae un rhiant wedi cysylltu â mi a oedd wedi rhoi genedigaeth yn yr uned honno, a dywedodd wrthyf, pan oedd hi yno, fod yr amodau yn eithaf gwael a bod gwaed ar y llawr yn y toiledau. Felly, mae’n amlwg, ar ryw adeg yn y gorffennol, y bu problemau yn yr uned na chawsant sylw priodol. Pa drefniadau sydd ar waith ar gyfer genedigaethau cymhleth sy’n llai na thymor-llawn? A fydd rhieni yn cael eu hanfon i Ben-y-bont ar Ogwr? Pa mor hir ydych yn rhagweld y bydd hynny’n digwydd?

Lesley Griffiths: As soon as the internal investigation is completed, the external investigation will begin. I have asked for that to be done as swiftly as possible. With regard to the infection prevention and control measures, I was not aware of any previous difficulties, and I understood that the unit had a good record. If you know of anything in particular, please write to me. The neonatal network is ensuring that there are enough resources for any premature births to take place elsewhere. If there are no further cases or positive environmental samples by Friday, ABMU anticipates lifting the restriction. 

Lesley Griffiths: Cyn gynted ag y caiff yr ymchwiliad mewnol ei gwblhau, bydd yr ymchwiliad allanol yn cychwyn. Gofynnais i hynny gael ei gwblhau cyn gynted ag y bo modd. O ran y mesurau i atal a rheoli heintiau, ni wn am unrhyw anawsterau blaenorol, a deallaf fod record dda gan yr uned. Os gwyddoch am unrhyw beth penodol, ysgrifennwch ataf. Mae’r rhwydwaith newydd-anedig yn sicrhau bod digon o adnoddau i unrhyw enedigaethau cynamserol ddigwydd mewn mannau eraill. Os nad oes unrhyw achos pellach neu sampl amgylcheddol positif erbyn dydd Gwener, mae ABMU yn rhagweld y bydd yn codi’r cyfyngiad.

Julie James: I, too, would like to express my heartfelt condolences to the families of the two babies who have died in this incident. Minister, I would also like to ask for assurances that there will be a speedy investigation. I welcome the announcement made by the health board on the involvement of external agencies in that investigation. I would like assurances from you that there will be good oversight of these two processes and that mothers expecting to give birth in the unit to full-term babies, who are not looking for neonatal support, will be okay there for the foreseeable future.

Julie James: Hoffwn innau hefyd gydymdeimlo’n ddidwyll â theuluoedd y ddau faban sydd wedi marw yn y digwyddiad hwn. Weinidog, hoffwn hefyd ofyn am sicrwydd y bydd yna ymchwiliad cyflym. Croesawaf y cyhoeddiad a wnaed gan y bwrdd iechyd y bydd asiantaethau allanol yn rhan o’r ymchwiliad hwnnw. Hoffwn gael sicrwydd gennych y bydd trosolwg da o’r ddwy broses hon ac y bydd bydd mamau sy’n disgwyl rhoi genedigaeth yn yr uned i fabanod tymor-llawn, sydd ddim yn chwilio am gefnogaeth newydd-anedig, yn iawn yno yn y dyfodol rhagweladwy.

Lesley Griffiths: I thank the Member for that question. As I said in my answer to Peter Black, I have asked for the external inquiry to be completed as soon as possible, and it will start as soon as the internal investigation has been completed. This is the responsibility of the LHB, but I am being kept very closely appraised of developments. There is a helpline for any concerned mother and, if women wish to have their baby elsewhere, they will be supported in that.

Lesley Griffiths: Diolch i’r Aelod am y cwestiwn hwnnw. Fel y dywedais yn fy ateb i Peter Black, gofynnais i’r ymchwiliad allanol gael ei gwblhau gynted ag y bo modd, a bydd yn dechrau cyn gynted ag y caiff yr ymchwiliad mewnol ei gwblhau. Cyfrifoldeb y bwrdd iechyd lleol yw hwn, ond rwy’n cael y wybodaeth ddiweddaraf o ran datblygiadau. Mae llinell gymorth ar gyfer unrhyw fam bryderus, ac os bydd menywod yn dymuno cael eu baban rhywle arall, byddant yn cael eu cefnogi i wneud hynny.

Bethan Jenkins: I also offer my condolences to the families. This is obviously a very difficult time for them. As has been said, they deserve their privacy. I would like to know what the Welsh Government will do to impress on the health board the need to undertake an investigation as to how this particular strain of E. coli came to be found among patients at Singleton. I understand that one of the cases is a mother who has tested positive for extended-spectrum beta-lactamase E. coli but who had not shown any symptoms or required treatment. The last major outbreak of ESBL E. coli was in Luton in September 2008. It is believed that extreme prematurity may be a risk for ESBL E. coli infection, and measures have subsequently been implemented to improve environmental cleaning and to change the policy on antibiotics. Can we be assured that the Health Inspectorate Wales review will look at the Luton review and learn lessons from what has happened elsewhere in Britain to ensure that this does not happen again in Wales?

Bethan Jenkins: Yr wyf hefyd yn cydymdeimlo â’r teuluoedd. Mae hyn yn amlwg yn gyfnod anodd iawn iddynt. Fel y dywedwyd, maent yn haeddu cael preifatrwydd. Hoffwn wybod beth y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i roi pwysau ar y bwrdd iechyd am yr angen i gynnal ymchwiliad ynghylch sut y cafodd y math penodol hwn o E. coli ei ganfod ymysg cleifion yn Singleton. Deallaf fod un o’r achosion yn fam sydd wedi profi’n bositif am E. coli sbectrwm estynedig beta-lactamase, ond nad oedd wedi dangos unrhyw symptomau nag angen triniaeth. Yr oedd yr achos mawr diwethaf o E. coli SEBL yn Luton ym mis Medi 2008. Credir y gallai genedigaeth gynamserol eithafol fod yn risg o ran haint E. coli SEBL, ac yn dilyn hynny, rhoddwyd mesurau ar waith i wella glanhau amgylcheddol ac i newid y polisi ar wrthfiotigau. A allwn gael sicrwydd y bydd adolygiad Arolygiaeth Iechyd Cymru yn edrych ar adolygiad Luton ac yn dysgu gwersi o’r hyn sydd wedi digwydd mewn mannau eraill ym Mhrydain i sicrhau nad yw hyn yn digwydd eto yng Nghymru?

Lesley Griffiths: Patient confidentiality has to be at the forefront of considerations, and I do not think that I can comment on that case. In relation to learning lessons, we will have to wait for HIW’s inquiry. It will be an independent inquiry. I am sure that lessons will be learned and that many of the questions that you have asked will be answered at the closure of that inquiry.

Lesley Griffiths: Mae’n rhaid i gyfrinachedd claf fod ar flaen ystyriaethau, ac nid wyf yn meddwl y gallaf wneud sylwadau ar yr achos hwnnw. O ran dysgu gwersi, bydd yn rhaid inni aros am ymchwiliad AGIC. Bydd yn ymchwiliad annibynnol. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd gwersi’n cael eu dysgu ac y bydd llawer o’r cwestiynau yr ydych wedi’u gofyn yn cael eu hateb ar ddiwedd yr ymchwiliad hwnnw.

Byron Davies: Minister, to reiterate much of what has already been said in the Chamber this afternoon on this very sad occasion, I share the concerns of the entire Chamber about the tragic deaths at Singleton Hospital. I would like to put on record the sympathies and prayers from this side of the Chamber for the families involved. There can be no greater tragedy than losing a child in such circumstances.

Byron Davies: Weinidog, i ailadrodd llawer o’r hyn sydd eisoes wedi ei ddweud yn y Siambr y prynhawn yma ar yr achlysur trist iawn hwn, yr wyf yn rhannu pryderon y Siambr gyfan am y marwolaethau trasig yn Ysbyty Singleton. Hoffwn ddweud ar goedd am y cydymdeimlad a gweddïau o’r ochr hon i’r Siambr i’r teuluoedd dan sylw. Nid oes trasiedi mwy na cholli plentyn mewn amgylchiadau o’r fath.

Naturally, there will be a full investigation at the hospital, in addition to the Healthcare Inspectorate Wales external review that has just been announced. We need to see how cross-infection occurred in the maternity and neonatal unit. Minister, will you look into what can be learned and how we can prevent any future breaches? Will you also assist the trust in restoring confidence in the hospital, which will, no doubt, have been shaken to the core by this tragic event, so as to give future parents and parents of newborn babies some reassurance and comfort?

Yn naturiol, bydd ymchwiliad llawn yn yr ysbyty, yn ogystal â’r adolygiad allanol gan Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru sydd newydd gael ei gyhoeddi. Mae angen inni weld sut y digwyddodd croes-heintio yn yn yr uned famolaeth a newydd-anedig.  Weinidog, a fyddwch yn edrych ar beth y gellir ei ddysgu a sut y gallwn atal unrhyw esgeulustod yn y dyfodol? A wnewch chi hefyd gynorthwyo’r ymddiriedolaeth i adfer hyder yn yr ysbyty, a fydd, heb os, wedi ei hysgwyd i’r byw gan y digwyddiad trasig hwn, er mwyn rhoi rhywfaint o sicrwydd a chysur i rieni babanod newydd-anedig a rhieni’r dyfodol?

Lesley Griffiths: Yes, absolutely. I feel that we need to wait, however. As I said, once the internal investigation is completed, I will discuss the outcomes and recommendations from that investigation with the chair and chief executive. The external, independent inquiry will then start, and we will await the report before considering what actions, if any, need to be taken.

Lesley Griffiths: Gwnaf. Teimlaf bod angen inni aros, fodd bynnag. Fel y dywedais, pan gaiff yr ymchwiliad mewnol ei gwblhau, byddaf yn trafod canlyniadau ac argymhellion yr ymchwiliad hwnnw gyda’r cadeirydd a’r prif weithredwr. Bydd yr ymchwiliad allanol, annibynnol yn cychwyn wedyn, a byddwn yn aros am yr adroddiad cyn ystyried pa gamau, os o gwbl, y mae angen eu cymryd.

Cwestiwn Brys
Urgent Question

Cau Gorsaf Gwylwyr y Glannau Abertawe
The Closure of Swansea Coastguard Station

Bethan Jenkins: Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd yn dilyn y cyhoeddiad y bydd gorsaf gwylwyr y glannau Abertawe yn cau? EAQ(4)0070(LGC)

Bethan Jenkins: What action is the Welsh Government taking following the announcement of the closure of Swansea Coastguard Station? EAQ(4)0070(LGC)

The Minister for Local Government and Communities (Carl Sargeant): I thank the Member for her question. We are very dismayed by yesterday’s decision, and we feel that a major campaign against the proposed changes has been ignored by the UK Government. We will be writing to the UK Government.

Y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau (Carl Sargeant): Diolch i’r Aelod am ei chwestiwn. Yr ydym yn siomedig iawn gan benderfyniad ddoe, ac yr ydym yn teimlo bod ymgyrch fawr yn erbyn y newidiadau arfaethedig wedi cael ei hanwybyddu gan Lywodraeth y DU. Byddwn yn ysgrifennu at Lywodraeth y DU.

Bethan Jenkins: Thank you for that answer, Minister. I would like to put on the record today my support for the excellent campaign that the Save Swansea Coastguard group enacted. It was a very rigorous and passionate campaign, and I am sorry that it has not been successful. The UK Government justified the decision to close Swansea on the grounds that there is already substantial public sector employment in the city. That is ludicrous and insulting, effectively lumping together coastguards, workers at the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency, teachers, nurses, firefighters and anyone else under a catch-all, bean-counting classification that pays no attention to vocations or specialism. It is also incorrect. Earlier this year, the Centre for Cities released a report that placed Swansea’s economic recovery among the UK cities’ most at-risk—

Bethan Jenkins: Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Hoffwn roi ar goedd heddiw fy nghefnogaeth i’r ymgyrch ragorol gan grŵp Achub Gwylwyr y Glannau Abertawe. Yr oedd yn ymgyrch drylwyr ac angerddol iawn, ac mae’n ddrwg gennyf na lwyddodd. Cyfiawnhaodd Llywodraeth y DU y penderfyniad i gau Abertawe ar y sail bod cyflogaeth sector cyhoeddus sylweddol yn y ddinas yn barod. Mae hynny’n hurt a sarhaus, gan ei fod i bob pwrpas yn tynnu at ei gilydd gwylwyr y glannau, gweithwyr yn yr Asiantaeth Trwyddedu Gyrwyr a Cherbydau, athrawon, nyrsys, diffoddwyr tân ac unrhyw un arall, mewn dosbarth rhy gyffredinol sydd wrth fodd cyfrifwyr, ac yn anwybyddu galwedigaethau neu arbenigedd. Mae hefyd yn anghywir. Yn gynharach eleni, rhyddhawyd adroddiad gan y Centre for Cities a oedd yn gosod adferiad economaidd Abertawe ymhlith dinasoedd mwyaf mewn perygl y DU—

The Presiding Officer: Order. Bethan Jenkins, please—

Y Llywydd: Trefn. Bethan Jenkins, os gwelwch yn dda—

Bethan Jenkins: This is the context of the question.

Bethan Jenkins: Dyma yw cyd-destun y cwestiwn.

The Presiding Officer: Order. Bethan Jenkins. This is a question.

Y Llywydd: Trefn. Bethan Jenkins. Cwestiwn yw hwn.

Bethan Jenkins: This is the context of that question.

Bethan Jenkins: Dyma gyd-destun y cwestiwn hwnnw.

The Presiding Officer: Order. I do not care about the context. We know the context.

Y Llywydd: Trefn. Nid oes ots gennyf am y cyd-destun. Gwyddom beth yw’r cyd-destun.

Bethan Jenkins: We need to hear the context of the question.

Bethan Jenkins: Mae angen inni glywed cyd-destun y cwestiwn.

The Presiding Officer: Order. Will you please just ask the question?

Y Llywydd: Trefn. A wnewch chi ofyn y cwestiwn, os gwelwch yn dda?

Bethan Jenkins: It does not make sense without me explaining—

Bethan Jenkins: Nid yw’n gwneud synnwyr os nad wyf yn esbonio—

The Presiding Officer: Order. Will you please just ask the question?

Y Llywydd: Trefn. A wnewch chi ofyn y cwestiwn, os gwelwch yn dda?

Bethan Jenkins: The question does not make sense without me explaining—

Bethan Jenkins: Nid yw’r cwestiwn yn gwneud synnwyr os nad wyf yn esbonio—

The Presiding Officer: Order. I am sorry, but you have been on your feet for one and a half minutes, and you have not come to the question. Please come to the question. We know the context.

Y Llywydd: Trefn. Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, ond yr ydych wedi bod ar eich traed am funud a hanner, ac nid ydych wedi dod at y cwestiwn. Os gwelwch yn dda, dewch at y cwestiwn. Yr ydym yn gwybod beth yw’r cyd-destun.

Bethan Jenkins: Research by the Centre for Cities shows that the area faces an uncertain future because of the proposals for joint working at the centre. Will the Minister please make these points in his reaction to this illogical, unreasonable, and, frankly, downright political decision by the UK Government?

Bethan Jenkins: Mae’r ymchwil gan y Centre for Cities yn dangos bod yr ardal yn wynebu dyfodol ansicr oherwydd y cynigion i weithio ar y cyd yn y ganolfan. A wnaiff y Gweinidog wneud y pwyntiau hyn yn ei ymateb i benderfyniad sydd yn hollol afresymegol ac afresymol, a dweud y gwir, ac yn un cwbl wleidyddol gan Lywodraeth y DU?

Carl Sargeant: I have noted the Member’s comments today. Of course, Swansea coastguard station is the third busiest in the UK, and Wales’s busiest coastguard station. I share her concerns about the decision-making process on this issue and will note that in my correspondence to the Minister accordingly.

Carl Sargeant: Yr wyf wedi nodi sylwadau’r Aelod heddiw. Wrth gwrs, gorsaf gwylwyr y glannau Abertawe yw’r trydydd prysuraf yn y DU, a’r prysuraf yng Nghymru. Yr wyf yn rhannu ei phryderon am y broses o wneud penderfyniadau ar y mater hwn a byddaf yn nodi hynny yn fy ngohebiaeth â’r Gweinidog yn unol â hynny.

3.00 p.m.

Mike Hedges: The UK Government has given, as the main reason for the closure of Swansea’s coastguard station, the fact that the Department for Transport already employs a large number of people in the city. This is a ludicrous situation: having your car taxed has nothing to do with having your life saved. Do you agree that this excuse is outrageous and insulting to the people of Swansea, and will you join me in condemning this politically motivated action by the UK Government, as it could put people’s lives at risk at sea?

Mike Hedges: Mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi dweud mae’r prif reswm dros gau gorsaf gwylwyr y glannau yn Abertawe yw’r ffaith bod yr Adran Drafnidiaeth eisoes yn cyflogi nifer fawr o bobl yn y ddinas. Mae hon yn sefyllfa chwerthinllyd: nid oes a wnelo trethu car ddim byd ag achub bywyd. A ydych chi’n cytuno bod yr esgus hwn yn warthus ac yn sarhaus i bobl Abertawe, ac a wnewch chi ymuno â mi yn condemnio’r camau hyn, sydd wedi cael eu cymell gan wleidydda, gan Lywodraeth y DU, gan y gallent beryglu bywydau pobl ar y môr?

Carl Sargeant: We must remember that these decisions have an impact on people’s safety and the element of risk that they are exposed to in the area around Swansea. I do not see any link whatsoever to the number of people employed by the DVLA in Swansea. Their jobs are as valuable as coastguard jobs, and they should be kept completely separate in the decision-making process undertaken by the Minister in the UK Government.

Carl Sargeant: Rhaid i ni gofio bod y penderfyniadau hyn yn effeithio ar ddiogelwch pobl a’r elfen o risg y maent yn cael eu hamlygu iddi yn yr ardal o amgylch Abertawe. Ni welaf unrhyw gysylltiad o gwbl â nifer y bobl a gyflogir gan y DVLA yn Abertawe. Mae eu swyddi’r un mor werthfawr â swyddi gwylwyr y glannau, a dylid eu cadw yn gyfan gwbl ar wahân wrth i’r Gweinidog yn Llywodraeth y DU wneud penderfyniadau.

Suzy Davies: I express my huge disappointment at the decision announced yesterday, and I concur with what Mike Hedges said, actually. While I must accept that, overall, more jobs have been saved in Wales than would have been under Labour’s previous proposals, the decision does seem to fly in the face of the strong arguments that were made in favour of retaining the Swansea coastguard station. Those arguments were put forcefully, but responsibly, by the co-ordinators and by the strong protest campaign, which was, incidentally, a cross-party campaign. I would add my congratulations to them on their amazing work.

Suzy Davies: Yr wyf yn mynegi fy siom enfawr am y penderfyniad a gyhoeddwyd ddoe, ac yr wyf yn cytuno â’r hyn a ddywedodd Mike Hedges, mewn gwirionedd. Er bod yn rhaid i mi dderbyn, ar y cyfan, yr achubwyd mwy o swyddi yng Nghymru nag a fyddai wedi cael eu hachub o dan gynigion blaenorol Llafur, mae’r penderfyniad yn ymddangos i fod yn nannedd y dadleuon cryfion a wnaed o blaid cadw gorsaf gwylwyr y glannau yn Abertawe. Gwnaed y dadleuon hynny yn rymus ond yn gyfrifol gan y cydlynwyr a gan yr ymgyrch brotest gref, a oedd, gyda llaw, yn ymgyrch drawsbleidiol. Yr wyf am estyn fy llongyfarchiadau innau iddynt am eu gwaith anhygoel.

Minister, it is not yet clear quite what that campaign group intends to do next, but there is one particular matter on which the Welsh Government could take immediate action. The Swansea station will remain open for use by those volunteers who are called out to carry out search and rescue activities in the area, and the UK Government has—

Weinidog, nid yw’n glir eto beth yn union y mae’r grŵp ymgyrchu yn bwriadu ei wneud nesaf, ond mae un mater penodol y gallai Llywodraeth Cymru weithredu arno ar unwaith. Bydd yr orsaf yn Abertawe yn parhau ar agor at ddefnydd y gwirfoddolwyr sy’n cael eu galw allan i gyflawni gweithgareddau chwilio ac achub yn yr ardal, ac mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi—

The Presiding Officer: Order. Are you coming to the question?

Y Llywydd: Trefn. A ydych chi’n dod at y cwestiwn?

Suzy Davies: I certainly shall. The UK Government has promised to reinforce and improve investment in the voluntary side of the service. Minister, when you write to the Minister for shipping, will you undertake to find out exactly where and when he intends to enact that promise?

Suzy Davies: Ydwyf, yn sicr. Mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi addo atgyfnerthu a gwella buddsoddiad yn ochr wirfoddol y gwasanaeth. Weinidog, pan fyddwch chi’n ysgrifennu at y Gweinidog dros longau, a wnewch chi ymgymryd i gael gwybod yn union ble a phryd y mae’n bwriadu rhoi’r addewid hwnnw ar waith?

Carl Sargeant: Either the First Minister or I will write to Mike Penning. Whoever does so will incorporate many of the comments that have been made by concerned Members today. I recognise that the Member was part of the campaign. It would be helpful to me if the Member were to write to me, also condemning the decision that Mike Penning announced yesterday.

Carl Sargeant: Byddaf i neu’r Prif Weinidog yn ysgrifennu at Mike Penning. Bydd pwy bynnag a wnaiff hynny yn ymgorffori llawer o’r sylwadau sydd wedi cael eu gwneud gan Aelodau pryderus heddiw. Yr wyf yn cydnabod yr oedd yr Aelod yn rhan o’r ymgyrch. Byddai o gymorth i mi pe bai’r Aelod yn ysgrifennu ataf, gan gondemnio’r penderfyniad a gyhoeddodd Mike Penning ddoe.

David Rees: Minister, will you join me—along with Bethan Jenkins and Suzy Davies—in calling for the Tories and Lib Dems who sit in this Chamber to stand up for the people of South Wales West, South Wales Central and South Wales East, all of which are on the Bristol channel and are served by the Swansea station, and ask them to demand that their colleagues at Westminster review this decision? In my view, the decision is a disgusting one, as it puts people’s lives at risk. What is more, I have spoken to Rod Johnson, the chief UK coastguard, and his assertion is that local knowledge can be replaced by computer knowledge. It does not work.

David Rees: Weinidog, a wnewch chi ymuno â mi—ynghyd â Bethan Jenkins a Suzy Davies—yn galw ar y Torïaid a’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol sy’n eistedd yn y Siambr hon i sefyll dros bobl Gorllewin De Cymru, Canol De Cymru a Dwyrain De Cymru, sydd i gyd ar Fôr Hafren ac yn cael eu gwasanaethu gan yr orsaf yn Abertawe, a gofyn iddynt fynnu bod eu cydweithwyr yn San Steffan yn adolygu’r penderfyniad hwn? Yn fy marn i, mae’r penderfyniad yn un ffiaidd, gan ei fod yn peryglu bywydau pobl. Yn fwy na hynny, yr wyf wedi siarad â Rod Johnson, prif wyliwr y glannau yn y DU, ac mae yntau’n haeru bod modd i wybodaeth gyfrifiadurol ddisodli gwybodaeth leol. Nid yw hynny’n gweithio.

Carl Sargeant: The Member has been very vocal, along with many others, in the campaign to save the Swansea coastguard station. I share his concerns. I also have further concerns, which need to be clarified by the UK Minister, with regard to the risk and security impact assessment and whether it has taken place or not. I will be seeking the Minister’s assurances on the detail.

Carl Sargeant: Mae’r Aelod wedi bod yn llafar iawn, ynghyd â llawer o bobl eraill, yn yr ymgyrch i achub gorsaf gwylwyr y glannau yn Abertawe. Yr wyf yn rhannu ei bryderon. Mae gennyf hefyd bryderon pellach, sydd angen eglurhad gan Weinidog y DU, o ran yr asesiad o’r effaith o ran risg a diogelwch ac a yw wedi digwydd ai peidio. Byddaf yn ceisio cael sicrwydd oddi wrth y Gweinidog am y manylion.

As I mentioned earlier, Swansea is Wales’s busiest coastguard station, and third busiest in the UK. It is a bizarre decision for UK Government to close this coastguard station. The First Minister and I have shown significant interest in trying to establish why the UK Minister has taken this strange decision.

Fel y soniais yn gynharach, Abertawe yw gorsaf gwylwyr y glannau prysuraf Cymru, a’r trydydd prysuraf yn y DU. Mae’n benderfyniad rhyfedd gan Lywodraeth y DU i gau’r orsaf hon. Mae’r Prif Weinidog a minnau wedi dangos diddordeb sylweddol mewn ceisio sefydlu pam mae Gweinidog y DU wedi cymryd y penderfyniad rhyfedd hwn.

Peter Black: I also condemn this closure, and I am happy to allow my name to be added to a letter to that effect. I very much regret this closure; it is the wrong decision for the wrong reasons. I certainly support the Minister in writing to the UK Government to put that on record.

Peter Black: Yr wyf hefyd yn condemnio cau’r orsaf ac yr wyf yn fodlon caniatáu i’m henw gael ei ychwanegu at lythyr i’r perwyl hwnnw. Gresynaf fod yr orsaf yn cael ei chau; dyma’r penderfyniad anghywir am y rhesymau anghywir. Yr wyf yn sicr yn cefnogi bod y Gweinidog yn ysgrifennu at Lywodraeth y DU i roi hynny ar glawr.

Minister, clearly, if we are not able to have this decision overturned, or to ask the UK Government to change its mind, there is an issue as to how the Bristol channel will be covered in future. Given your responsibility for the emergency services, is it possible for you to carry out a review with the remaining coastguard station at Milford Haven and the emergency services, so that you can give us some assurances in terms of what arrangements will be in place in future?

Weinidog, yn amlwg, os na allwn ni gael y penderfyniad hwn wedi’i wrthdroi, neu ofyn i Lywodraeth y DU i newid ei feddwl, mae problem o ran goruchwylio Môr Hafren yn y dyfodol. O ystyried eich cyfrifoldeb dros y gwasanaethau brys, a yw’n bosibl i chi gynnal adolygiad gyda’r orsaf gwylwyr y glannau yn Aberdaugleddau a’r gwasanaethau brys, fel y gallwch chi roi rhywfaint o sicrwydd i ni o ran pa drefniadau fydd yn weithredol yn y dyfodol?

Carl Sargeant: Of course, there are many issues regarding the emergency provision in which Wales has an interest, and I would expect my team to be involved in the planning process for civil contingency. I will not be able to fill some of the gaps because of a reduction in funding, or fill the gaps in terms of the job losses or the cuts to services that have been imposed by the UK Government. However, I welcome your comments in trying to secure a reversal of the decision made on Swansea coastguard station.

Carl Sargeant: Wrth gwrs, mae llawer o faterion ynglŷn â’r ddarpariaeth frys y mae gan Gymru gyfran ynddynt, a byddwn yn disgwyl i’m tîm i fod yn rhan o’r broses gynllunio ar gyfer argyfyngau sifil posibl. Ni fyddaf yn gallu llenwi rhai o’r bylchau oherwydd gostyngiad yn y cyllid, neu lenwi’r bylchau o ran y colledion swyddi neu’r toriadau i wasanaethau mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi eu gosod. Fodd bynnag, croesawaf eich sylwadau am geisio gwrthdroi’r penderfyniad am hynt gorsaf gwylwyr y glannau Abertawe.

Julie James: I also add my voice to the praise for the Save Swansea Coastguard campaign; it was an excellently run campaign that had cross-party support. I am unequivocally against the closure of the coastguard station, and I echo the words of Byron Davies AM, who said that in the Chamber before. I welcome Peter Black’s indication that he is happy to put his name to any list of AMs who oppose this. Minister, can I assume from that statement that we will have his support and that of his Conservative colleagues, together with the support of all AMs in Wales—because this is an issue that affects the whole of Wales, as we are talking about safety in the Bristol channel, not just a few jobs in Swansea—in lobbying their Westminster colleagues hard to immediately review this outrageous decision to close the Swansea coastguard station on the basis of the fact that we have people who can register your car while you drown in the Bristol channel, which is an outrageous and risky decision?

Julie James: Yr wyf i hefyd yn ychwanegu fy llais at y ganmoliaeth i ymgyrch Achub Gwylwyr y Glannau Abertawe; yr oedd yn ymgyrch a gafodd ei redeg yn ardderchog ac a oedd â chefnogaeth drawsbleidiol. Yr wyf yn ddiamwys yn erbyn cau gorsaf gwylwyr y glannau, ac ategaf eiriau Byron Davies AC, a ddywedodd hynny yn y Siambr o’r blaen. Yr wyf yn croesawu arwydd Peter Black ei fod yn barod i ychwanegu ei enw at unrhyw restr o ACau sy’n gwrthwynebu hyn. Weinidog, a allaf i gymryd yn ganiataol o’r datganiad hwnnw y bydd gennym ei gefnogaeth ef a’i gyd-Aelodau Ceidwadol, ynghyd â chefnogaeth yr holl ACau yng Nghymru—oherwydd mae hwn yn fater sy’n effeithio ar Gymru gyfan, gan ein bod yn siarad am ddiogelwch ym Môr Hafren, nid dim ond ychydig o swyddi yn Abertawe—wrth lobïo eu cydweithwyr yn San Steffan yn daer i gynnal adolygiad diymdroi o’r penderfyniad gwarthus hwn i gau gorsaf gwylwyr y glannau yn Abertawe ar sail y ffaith bod gennym bobl sy’n gallu cofrestru eich car wrth i chi foddi ym Môr Hafren, sydd yn benderfyniad gwarthus a pheryglus?

Carl Sargeant: Again, I would welcome the Member’s contribution to a letter that we will send from Government to the UK Minister. If we can secure cross-party support for such a letter, it will gain strength in terms of the detail that we will be able to include.

Carl Sargeant: Unwaith eto, byddwn yn croesawu cyfraniad yr Aelod at lythyr y byddwn ni yn ei anfon Weinidog y DU. Os gallwn ni sicrhau cefnogaeth drawsbleidiol i lythyr o’r fath, bydd yn gryfach o ran y manylion y byddwn yn gallu eu cynnwys.

Joyce Watson: Minister, I wish to recognise and welcome the support of the First Minister and this Government in terms of trying to save the service in Swansea. As someone who was involved in the Save Milford Haven Coastguard campaign, I now realise that there will be consequences for the Milford Haven coastguard to have to cover this area in its risk assessment. Will the Minister ask the Westminster Government to explain from where the risk element was derived, when it made a statement saying that the decision was based purely on public sector jobs? Do you think that this could be put forward for judicial review?

Joyce Watson: Weinidog, yr wyf yn dymuno cydnabod a chroesawu cefnogaeth y Prif Weinidog a’r Llywodraeth hon o ran ceisio achub y gwasanaeth yn Abertawe. Fel rhywun a gymerodd rhan yn ymgyrch Achub Gwylwyr y Glannau Aberdaugleddau, yr wyf yn awr yn sylweddoli y bydd canlyniadau wrth i wylwyr y glannau Aberdaugleddau orfod cynnwys yr ardal hon yn eu hasesiad risg. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ofyn i Lywodraeth San Steffan esbonio o ble y deilliodd yr elfen o risg, pan wnaeth ddatganiad yn dweud bod y penderfyniad yn seiliedig ar swyddi sector cyhoeddus yn unig? A ydych chi’n credu y gallai hyn fod yn destun adolygiad barnwrol?

Carl Sargeant: I would not wish to comment on the possibility of a judicial review. However, for a Minister to make a decision on risk based on the number of jobs in Wales is a somewhat interesting argument. The Save Swansea Coastguard campaign collected over 110,000 signatures, which is a significant campaign and suggests that very many people were opposed to the closure on the right basis, namely safety. I would not seek to answer for the UK Government Minister and, when we write the letter, I would expect him to respond by articulating the reasons why he came to that decision.

Carl Sargeant: Ni fyddwn yn dymuno gwneud sylwadau ar y posibilrwydd o gael adolygiad barnwrol. Fodd bynnag, mae’n ddadl ddiddorol gan Weinidog i wneud penderfyniad ar risg yn seiliedig ar nifer y swyddi sydd yng Nghymru. Mae ymgyrch Achub Gwylwyr y Glannau Abertawe, a gasglodd dros 110,000 o lofnodion, yn ymgyrch arwyddocaol ac yn awgrymu bod llawer iawn o bobl yn gwrthwynebu cau’r orsaf ar y sail gywir, sef diogelwch. Ni fyddwn yn ceisio ateb ar ran Gweinidog Llywodraeth y DU, a phan fyddwn yn ysgrifennu’r llythyr byddwn yn disgwyl iddo ymateb gan gyfleu pam y gwnaed y penderfyniad hwnnw.

The Presiding Officer: I have selected amendments 1 and 2 in the name of Jane Hutt, amendments 3, 5, 6, 7 and 8 in the name of Peter Black and amendment 4 in the name of Jocelyn Davies.

Y Llywydd: Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliannau 1 a 2 yn enw Jane Hutt, gwelliannau 3, 5, 6, 7 ac 8 yn enw Peter Black a gwelliant 4 yn enw Jocelyn Davies.

Cynnig NDM4858 William Graham

Motion NDM4858 William Graham

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Yn cydnabod bod:

1. Recognises that:

a) buddsoddi mewn seilwaith trafnidiaeth yn angenrheidiol er mwyn cyflawni twf economaidd ledled Cymru;

a) investing in transport infrastructure is necessary to deliver economic growth across Wales;

b) Maes Awyr Caerdydd, ein porth rhyngwladol, yn methu marchnata Cymru yn effeithiol nac ymestyn ei lwybrau hedfan a bod angen cefnogaeth ac arweinyddiaeth arno ar frys gan Lywodraeth Cymru; ac

b) Cardiff Airport, our international gateway, is failing to effectively market Wales and expand its air routes and needs urgent Welsh Government support and leadership; and

c) nad oes gan Lywodraeth Cymru weledigaeth nac uchelgais ar gyfer creu rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth sydd gyda’r gorau yn y byd.

c) the Welsh Government’s lack of vision or ambition for creating a world leading transport network.

2. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i:

2. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) lunio rhaglen farchnata i ddenu’r sector hedfan i Gymru ac adolygu a buddsoddi mewn mynediad cyhoeddus i Faes Awyr Rhyngwladol Caerdydd;

a) set out a marketing programme to attract the aviation sector into Wales and review and invest in public access to Cardiff International Airport;

b) adolygu’r gorsafoedd gwasanaeth a’r mannau aros i lorïau sydd ar hyd y prif ffyrdd ar draws Cymru ar hyn o bryd a rhoi manylion rhaglen fuddsoddi; ac

b) review the current service stations and truck stops along main carriageways across Wales and detail a programme of investment; and

c) adolygu ac ailasesu defnyddio rhaglenni cyllid Ewropeaidd ar gyfer prosiectau seilwaith trafnidiaeth ledled Cymru.

c) review and reassess the use of European funding programmes for transport infrastructure projects across Wales.

Byron Davies: I move the motion.

Byron Davies: Cynigiaf y cynnig.

This debate brings some crucial issues to the fore, and these can be broken down into two themes, namely investment in our transport infrastructure and the future of Cardiff international airport. I will concentrate first on the Cardiff Airport issue. This is, of course, a critical issue. It is our international gateway—our gateway to the world—and, at present, it leaves a great deal to be desired. This debate should not be construed as an attack on Cardiff Airport; to the contrary, it needs assistance, leadership and, most importantly, support from this Government. There is no evidence to indicate that support of this kind has been provided; in fact, all the evidence shows that it is sadly lacking. Our only truly international airport has not received the backing you would have expected it to.

Mae’r ddadl hon yn dod â rhai materion hollbwysig i’r amlwg, a gellir eu rhannu’n ddwy thema, sef buddsoddiad yn ein seilwaith trafnidiaeth a dyfodol maes awyr rhyngwladol Caerdydd. Canolbwyntiaf yn gyntaf ar Faes Awyr Caerdydd. Mae hwn, wrth gwrs, yn fater hollbwysig. Hwn yw ein porth—ein porth rhyngwladol i’r byd—ac, ar hyn o bryd, mae’n bell o fod yn foddhaol. Ni ddylid dehongli’r ddadl hon fel ymosodiad ar Faes Awyr Caerdydd; i’r gwrthwyneb, mae arno angen cymorth, arweinyddiaeth ac, yn bwysicaf oll, cefnogaeth gan y Llywodraeth hon. Nid oes unrhyw dystiolaeth i ddangos bod cymorth o’r math hwn wedi cael ei ddarparu; yn wir, mae’r dystiolaeth i gyd yn dangos ei fod, yn anffodus, yn ddiffygiol. Nid yw ein unig faes awyr gwirioneddol ryngwladol wedi derbyn y gefnogaeth y byddech wedi disgwyl iddo ei derbyn.

I want to focus this debate in a constructive manner on where and how we can support our international airport. The easiest and most germane way is to review the current infrastructure supporting the airport, in terms of road, railway network and bus routes. In my view, they are substandard and we must look to invest; it can be put no other way. At the moment, passengers are choosing other airports and that should be a key focus for any Government. Cardiff competes with Bristol, Birmingham and Exeter, but none of those has easy access from south and west Wales. Therefore, Cardiff must, and should, be the choice of people from those areas of Wales. However, sadly, the routes just are not there. The destinations are limited, so people migrate to other neighbouring airports that offer more travel opportunities. Frankly, when people have gone, it is the devil’s own job to get them to return. Fortunately, for the people of north and mid Wales, there is the added choice of Manchester and Birmingham airports.

Yr wyf am ganolbwyntio yn y ddadl hon mewn ffordd adeiladol ar ble a sut y gallwn ni gefnogi ein maes awyr rhyngwladol. Y ffordd hawsaf a mwyaf perthnasol yw adolygu’r seilwaith presennol sy’n cefnogi’r maes awyr, o ran ffyrdd, rhwydwaith rheilffordd a llwybrau bysiau. Yn fy nhyb i, nid ydynt yn ddigon da ac mae’n rhaid i ni sicrhau bod buddsoddi yn digwydd; dyna’r unig ffordd amdani. Ar hyn o bryd, mae teithwyr yn dewis meysydd awyr eraill a dylai hynny fod yn ffocws allweddol ar gyfer unrhyw Lywodraeth. Mae Caerdydd yn cystadlu gyda Bryste, Birmingham a Chaerwysg, ond nid oes mynediad hawdd at yr un ohonynt o dde a gorllewin Cymru. Felly, mae Caerdydd yn gorfod bod, a dylai fod, yn ddewis gan bobl o’r ardaloedd hynny o Gymru. Fodd bynnag, yn anffodus, nid yw’r llwybrau yno. Mae’r cyrchfannau yn gyfyngedig, felly mae pobl yn mynd i feysydd awyr eraill cyfagos sy’n cynnig mwy o ddewisiadau teithio. A dweud y gwir, pan fydd pobl wedi mynd, mae’n waith anodd ar y naw i’w cael i ddychwelyd. Yn ffodus, mae gan bobl gogledd a chanolbarth Cymru y dewis ychwanegol o feysydd awyr Manceinion a Birmingham.

As far as Cardiff is concerned, in addition to establishing new and exciting locations to travel to, we also have to consider making the journey to Cardiff Airport an enjoyable experience for the traveller. Given the necessary investment, electrification of the Valley lines would present an excellent opportunity to improve access. We need to look at road access carefully and the establishment of express direct bus routes to make transfers between Cardiff and Cardiff Airport as easy and as fast as possible. That is vital if visiting businessmen—the potential investors—are to be sufficiently captivated so as to establish new businesses and generate employment and wealth in the area.  They will not be impressed by having to catch a local bus, in inclement weather, to the local train station stop to continue their business journey into Cardiff. That is critical. The Government must look again at access. I share the business community’s concerns that prospects for economic growth are being hindered by the decision not to press ahead with an access road. That option has to be reconsidered, and a review conducted. Make no mistake, Cardiff international is an airport at a critical turning point.

Cyn belled ag y mae Caerdydd yn y cwestiwn, yn ogystal â sefydlu cyrchfannau newydd a chyffrous i deithio iddynt, rhaid i ni hefyd ystyried gwneud y daith i Faes Awyr Caerdydd yn brofiad pleserus ar gyfer y teithiwr. O ystyried y buddsoddiad angenrheidiol, byddai trydaneiddio rheilffyrdd y Cymoedd yn gyfle gwych i wella mynediad. Mae angen i ni edrych yn ofalus ar fynediad ar y ffordd a sefydlu llwybrau bws uniongyrchol penodol i wneud trosglwyddiadau rhwng Caerdydd a Maes Awyr Caerdydd mor hawdd ac mor gyflym ag y bo modd. Mae hynny’n hollbwysig os yw dynion busnes sy’n ymweld— buddsoddwyr posibl—i gael eu swyno’n ddigonol er mwyn sefydlu busnesau newydd a chreu swyddi a chyfoeth yn yr ardal. Ni fydd gorfod dal bws lleol mewn tywydd garw i’r orsaf drên leol er mwyn parhau ar eu taith busnes i Gaerdydd yn creu argraff dda. Mae hynny’n allweddol. Mae’n rhaid i’r Llywodraeth edrych eto ar fynediad. Rhannaf bryderon y gymuned fusnes bod y penderfyniad i beidio â bwrw ymlaen â ffordd fynediad yn rhwystro’r rhagolygon ar gyfer twf economaidd. Mae’n rhaid ailystyried yr opsiwn hwnnw a chynnal adolygiad. Peidied neb â chamgymryd, mae maes awyr rhyngwladol Caerdydd wedi cyrraedd trobwynt hollbwysig.

It is a fact that there are fewer and fewer passengers and that has serious implications for the Welsh economy. We only have to look at what happened in 2010: the total number of passengers using Cardiff Airport decreased by 14 per cent and, even starker, the total freight handled at Cardiff Airport decreased by 84 per cent to only 28 tonnes. However, I am an optimist and think that the antithesis can be achieved just as quickly: we will see the airport get itself back on the right track, challenge Bristol, help to market Wales and grow its economy.

Mae’n ffaith bod yna lai a llai o deithwyr, ac mae gan hynny oblygiadau difrifol i economi Cymru. Nid oes ond yn rhaid i ni edrych ar yr hyn a ddigwyddodd yn 2010: gostyngodd cyfanswm nifer y teithwyr a oedd yn  defnyddio Maes Awyr Caerdydd 14 y cant ac, yn waeth byth, gostyngodd cyfanswm y nwyddau a oedd yn cael eu cludo o Gaerdydd o 84 y cant i ddim ond 28 o dunelli. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn optimist ac yn meddwl y gellir cyflawni’r gwrthwyneb yr un mor gyflym: byddwn yn gweld y maes awyr yn ôl ar y trywydd iawn, yn herio Bryste, yn helpu i farchnata Cymru ac i dyfu ei heconomi.

Before I became a Member here, I was a frequent business user of Cardiff Airport. The problems that regularly confronted me, and my fellow passengers with whom I spoke, included traffic congestion on airport approach roads at certain times of the day, as well as limitations on routes into Europe. Amsterdam Airport Schiphol is the only gateway to Europe. To be a truly competitive nation, and that is what we aim to achieve, we must have daily connections to Paris, Frankfurt and Munich, because they are important international hubs.

Cyn imi ddod yn Aelod yma, defnyddiwn Faes Awyr Caerdydd yn aml ar gyfer busnes. Yr oedd y problemau yr oeddwn i a’m cydweithwyr a siaradais â hwy yn eu hwynebu yn rheolaidd yn cynnwys tagfeydd traffig ar y ffyrdd i’r maes awyr ar adegau penodol o’r dydd, yn ogystal â chyfyngiadau ar lwybrau i mewn i Ewrop. Maes awyr Schiphol yn Amsterdam yw’r unig borth i mewn i Ewrop. Er mwyn bod yn genedl wirioneddol gystadleuol, a dyna’r ydym yn ceisio ei gyflawni, mae’n rhaid i ni gael cysylltiadau dyddiol â Pharis, Frankfurt a Munich, gan fod y rheini yn ganolfannau rhyngwladol pwysig.

The design of the airport arrivals area is challenging enough in itself. It requires something of a marathon walk, and that is after you have succeeding in negotiating the complex stairway, after alighting from the aircraft in one of Cardiff’s howling rainy winds. We must work with the owners of Cardiff Airport to assist them with their strategy to attract airlines to use Cardiff. The responsibility to do that is not theirs alone. The failure to attract airlines affects our greater economy and it is incumbent on the Government to keep a watchful eye and act appropriately by assisting with the infrastructure issues.

Mae gan yr ardal lle bydd teithwyr yn cyrraedd iddi ddyluniad heriol. Mae’n mynnu marathon o daith gerdded, ac mae hynny ar ôl i chi lwyddo i esgyn y grisiau cymhleth, wedi disgyn o awyren yn un o wyntoedd glawog Caerdydd. Rhaid i ni weithio gyda pherchnogion Maes Awyr Caerdydd er mwyn eu cynorthwyo gyda’u strategaeth i ddenu cwmnïau hedfan i ddefnyddio Caerdydd. Nid eu cyfrifoldeb nhw yn unig yw gwneud hynny. Mae’r methiant i ddenu cwmnïau hedfan yn effeithio ar ein heconomi ehangach, a dylai’r Llywodraeth gadw llygad barcud a gweithredu’n briodol drwy gynorthwyo gyda’r materion ynghylch seilwaith.

Lindsay Whittle: I am sorry to interrupt. I am all for working with TBI Limited, which owns the airport, but it owns or manages 29 airports in eight different countries, including Luton, Belfast and Atlanta, which is the biggest in the world. The company made a £662 million in profit last year on a €4.1 billion turnover. I think that it should invest in Cardiff Airport before we do.

Lindsay Whittle: Mae’n ddrwg gennyf dorri ar eich traws. Yr wyf yn llwyr o blaid gweithio gyda TBI Limited, sy’n berchen ar y maes awyr, ond mae’n berchen ar neu’n rheoli 29 o feysydd awyr mewn wyth gwlad wahanol, gan gynnwys Luton, Belfast ac Atlanta, sef y mwyaf yn y byd. Gwnaeth y cwmni elw o £662 miliwn y llynedd ar drosiant o €4.1 biliwn. Credaf y dylai fuddsoddi ym Maes Awyr Caerdydd cyn i ni wneud hynny.

Byron Davies: I hear what you say, but I thought that TBI had sold the airport six years ago.

Byron Davies: Yr wyf yn clywed yr hyn a ddywedwch, ond yr oeddwn yn meddwl bod TBI wedi gwerthu’r maes awyr chwe blynedd yn ôl.

Lindsay Whittle: No.

Lindsay Whittle: Naddo.

Byron Davies: I take your point; it is well made. I want to take this opportunity to mention the amendments, namely Peter Black’s amendment number 6. This demonstrates that your Government does not mind investing in private enterprises, in this case by subsidising a north-south air link. However, it has proved to be a poor use of taxpayers’ money and I would, as would my party, welcome an end to that subsidy, with the money invested for the benefit of the many and not the few travellers.

Byron Davies: Yr wyf yn derbyn eich pwynt; cafodd ei wneud yn dda. Hoffwn fanteisio ar y cyfle hwn i sôn am y gwelliannau, sef gwelliant rhif 6 Peter Black. Mae hwn yn dangos nad yw eich Llywodraeth yn erbyn buddsoddi mewn mentrau preifat, yn yr achos hwn drwy roi cymhorthdal i gyswllt awyr rhwng y gogledd a’r de. Fodd bynnag, mae wedi profi i fod yn ddefnydd gwael o arian trethdalwyr a byddwn i, fel fy mhlaid, yn croesawu rhoi diwedd ar y cymhorthdal hwnnw, gyda’r arian yn cael ei fuddsoddi er budd y llu o deithwyr, ac nid yr ychydig.   

3.15 p.m.

We want to see viable long-term commercial routes set up and, although we share the Liberal Democrats’ ambition to see the subsidy stopped, we cannot support their amendment 6, due to the inclusion of the final words ‘rule out subsidising additional airlines’. It will be necessary to pump prime some air routes, as the north-south air link should have been, but we should never subsidise air routes for the long term.

Rydym am weld llwybrau masnachol hirdymor hyfyw yn cael eu sefydlu, ac er ein bod yn rhannu uchelgais y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol i weld y cymhorthdal yn dod i ben, ni allwn gefnogi gwelliant 6 o ganlyniad i gynnwys y geiriau terfynol ‘i ddiystyru rhoi cymhorthdal i gwmnïau hedfan ychwanegol.’ Bydd angen ysgogi rhai llwybrau awyr, fel y dylid fod wedi digwydd gyda’r cyswllt awyr gogledd-dde, ond ni ddylem byth rhoi cymhorthdal i lwybrau awyr yn y tymor hir.

I now want to move my contribution to the remaining issues within our motion and stress the importance of investing in transport infrastructure, and, in particular, call for a review of service stations and truck stops along main carriageways in Wales. The provision of adequate facilities for all drivers is a problem, and we have to tackle it quickly and efficiently. Driver fatigue is a huge factor in many accidents, and we need to ensure that we improve the rest areas that are available and create new ones, not just on motorways but on our main arterial roads.

Yr wyf yn awr am drafod y materion sy’n weddill yn ein cynnig a phwysleisio pwysigrwydd buddsoddi mewn seilwaith trafnidiaeth, ac, yn benodol, galw am adolygiad o orsafoedd gwasanaeth ac arosfannau lorïau ar hyd y prif ffyrdd yng Nghymru. Mae darpariaeth cyfleusterau digonol ar gyfer pob gyrrwr yn broblem, ac mae’n rhaid inni fynd i’r afael ag ef yn gyflym ac yn effeithlon. Mae blinder gyrwyr yn ffactor enfawr mewn llawer o ddamweiniau ac mae angen inni sicrhau ein bod yn gwella’r mannau gorffwys sydd ar gael a chreu rhai newydd, nid yn unig ar draffyrdd ond ar ein prif ffyrdd hefyd.

If you look at comments from Dai Owen, owner of JD Owen Transport Ltd in Mold, who has been seeking permission to run a site on the A55 in Flintshire, you will see that he says that drivers in the UK lack even the most basic rest facilities. He also says:

Os edrychwch ar sylwadau Dai Owen, perchennog JD Owen Transport Ltd yn yr Wyddgrug, sydd wedi bod yn gofyn am ganiatâd i redeg safle ar yr A55 yn Sir y Fflint, byddwch yn gweld ei fod yn dweud bod gyrwyr yn y DU yn brin o hyd yn oed y cyfleusterau mwyaf sylfaenol. Mae hefyd yn dweud:

‘We are completely behind the rest of Europe on this, our drivers are unable to have a wash, shower or go to the toilet; it’s a desperate situation. My biggest concern is that if lorry parks don’t get the proper support, more and more will close. We desperately need a proper truck parking site in north Wales to serve the traffic coming to and from the port of Holyhead, there is just nothing here but lay-bys.’

Rydym yn gyfan gwbl y tu ôl i weddill Ewrop ar hyn, nid yw ein gyrwyr yn gallu ymolchi, cael cawod na mynd i’r toiled; mae’n sefyllfa anobeithiol. Fy mhryder mwyaf yw, os nad yw parciau lorïau yn cael y gefnogaeth briodol, bydd mwy a mwy yn cau. Mae gwir angen safle parcio priodol ar gyfer lorïau yn y gogledd i wasanaethu traffig sy’n dod i mewn ac allan o borthladd Caergybi, nid oes dim byd yma ond cilfannau.

Indeed, my experience only last week of travelling on the A470 from Cardiff to Newtown demonstrated clearly the lack of good-quality eating and toilet facilities, whether for families or truck drivers. The same could be said of the A40 after the Pont Abraham services at the end of the M4 en route to Fishguard.

Yn wir, dangosodd fy mhrofiad i yn glir dim ond yr wythnos diwethaf, wrth deithio ar yr A470 o Gaerdydd i’r Drenewydd, y diffyg cyfleusterau bwyta a thoiledau o ansawdd da, boed ar gyfer teuluoedd neu yrwyr lorïau. Mae’r un yn wir am yr A40 ar ôl gwasanaethau Pont Abraham ar ddiwedd yr M4 ar y ffordd i Abergwaun.

The efficient management of transport infrastructure projects is essential if the Welsh economy is to grow and flourish. The time for massive overspends, as we have seen in recent years on at least 18 major projects, is over. Money must be spent efficiently, and the use of European funding programmes on transport in Wales should be reviewed and reassessed. This point is extremely important as, through many debates in the Chamber and through my experience of meeting with business communities throughout Wales, one issue has become clear. We have the funding both domestically and through European programmes to make a huge difference to the Welsh economy, but the issue is prioritisation. Sadly, we have seen recently that when you apply the same criteria as the Department for Transport, many road projects fall short of the necessary economic benefit to warrant their delivery. This is not just a question of funding, but of priorities and business acumen.

Mae rheolaeth effeithlon prosiectau seilwaith trafnidiaeth yn hanfodol os yw economi Cymru i dyfu a ffynnu. Mae’r amser ar gyfer gorwariant enfawr, fel y gwelsom yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf ar o leiaf 18 o brosiectau mawr, wedi dod i ben. Rhaid gwario arian mewn modd effeithlon, a dylai’r defnydd o raglenni cyllid Ewropeaidd ar drafnidiaeth yng Nghymru gael eu hadolygu a’u hailasesu. Mae’r pwynt hwn yn hynod bwysig oherwydd, drwy nifer o ddadleuon yn y Siambr a thrwy fy mhrofiad o gwrdd â chymunedau busnes ledled Cymru, mae un mater wedi dod yn amlwg. Mae gennym y cyllid domestig a thrwy raglenni Ewropeaidd i wneud gwahaniaeth enfawr i economi Cymru, ond y broblem yw blaenoriaethu. Yn anffodus, yr ydym wedi gweld yn ddiweddar, pan fyddwch yn defnyddio’r un meini prawf â’r Adran Drafnidiaeth, mae llawer o brosiectau ar y ffyrdd yn methu â darparu’r budd economaidd angenrheidiol i gyfiawnhau eu cyflawni. Nid yw hyn yn fater o gyllid yn unig, ond o flaenoriaethau a chraffter busnes.

A good example of this was brought to my attention last week when I visited businesses in Newtown with my colleague Russell George. We discussed the importance of the Newtown bypass and were asked penetrating questions as to why other projects have been prioritised. The evidence behind that question is unquestionable and that leads me to wonder what other considerations there might be.

Dygwyd i’m sylw enghraifft dda o hyn yr wythnos diwethaf pan ymwelais â busnesau yn y Drenewydd gyda fy nghydweithiwr Russell George. Buom yn trafod pwysigrwydd ffordd osgoi’r Drenewydd a gofynnwyd cwestiynau treiddgar ynghylch pam y mae prosiectau eraill wedi cael eu blaenoriaethu. Mae’r dystiolaeth y tu ôl i’r cwestiwn hwnnw’n ddiamheuol ac mae’n fy arwain at feddwl tybed pa ystyriaethau eraill a allai fod.

I want to end by commending this motion to the Chamber. We must have a serious and constructive debate this afternoon about transport infrastructure on our main carriageways. We must also decide once and for all whether we will support Cardiff Airport to fulfil its potential and to deliver; it may well be that dialogue is under way in that respect with regard to routes, whether they are to China or America, but what is important here is that, for too long, Cardiff Airport has been allowed to stagnate. That is clearly because of a lack of support, access and marketing leadership from former Welsh Governments, and that can be addressed now. I assure you that you will have our full support from this side of the Chamber if you do so.

Hoffwn orffen drwy gymeradwyo’r cynnig hwn i’r Siambr. Rhaid inni gael dadl ddifrifol ac adeiladol y prynhawn yma am seilwaith trafnidiaeth ar ein prif ffyrdd. Rhaid inni hefyd benderfynu unwaith ac am byth a fyddwn yn cefnogi Maes Awyr Caerdydd i gyflawni ei botensial; mae’n ddigon posibl fod deialog yn digwydd yn hynny o beth o ran llwybrau, boed i Tsiena neu America, ond yr hyn sy’n bwysig yma yw bod Maes Awyr Caerdydd am gyfnod rhy hir wedi cael caniatâd i aros yn ei unfan. Mae hynny’n amlwg oherwydd diffyg cefnogaeth, mynediad ac arweiniad marchnata gan lywodraethau Cymru yn y gorffennol, a gellir ymdrin â hynny bellach. Gallaf eich sicrhau y cewch gefnogaeth lawn gan yr ochr hon i’r Siambr os gwnewch hynny.

Gwelliant 1 Jane Hutt

Amendment 1 Jane Hutt

Dileu is-bwynt 1b) a rhoi yn ei le:

Delete sub-point 1b) and replace with:

bod pryderon fod angen cynyddu effaith economaidd Maes Awyr Caerdydd a datblygu llwybrau awyr newydd, a bod Llywodraeth Cymru felly yn gweithio gyda’r perchnogion i ysgogi rhagor o weithgarwch busnes a gwella’r cysylltiadau rhyngwladol.

Concerns exist that there is a need to increase the economic impact of Cardiff Airport, and to develop new air routes, and that the Welsh Government is therefore working with the owners to stimulate further business activity and enhance international connectivity.

Gwelliant 2 Jane Hutt

Amendment 2 Jane Hutt

Dileu is-bwynt 1c).

Delete sub-point 1c).

The Minister for Local Government and Communities (Carl Sargeant): I move amendments 1 and 2 in the name of Jane Hutt.

Y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau (Carl Sargeant): Cynigiaf welliannau 1 a 2 yn enw Jane Hutt.

Gwelliant 3 Peter Black

Amendment 3 Peter Black

Ym mhwynt 2a) cyn ‘lunio’ rhoi:

In point 2a) before ‘set’ insert:

‘Gweithio gyda pherchnogion Maes Awyr Caerdydd i’

‘Work with the owners of Cardiff Airport to’

Gwelliant 5 Peter Black

Amendment 5 Peter Black

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Add as new point at end of motion:

Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i ddileu’r cymhorthdal i’r cyswllt hedfan rhwng y De a’r Gogledd ar y cyfle cyntaf ac i ddiystyru rhoi cymhorthdal i gwmnïau hedfan ychwanegol.

Calls for the Welsh government and UK government to begin work on a delivery plan for electrifying the Valleys Lines.

Gwelliant 6 Peter Black

Amendment 6 Peter Black

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Add as new point at end of motion:

Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i ddileu’r cymhorthdal i’r cyswllt hedfan rhwng y De a’r Gogledd ar y cyfle cyntaf ac i ddiystyru rhoi cymhorthdal i gwmnïau hedfan ychwanegol.

Calls on the Welsh Government to scrap the subsidy to the North-South air-link at the earliest opportunity and to rule out subsidising additional airlines.

Gwelliant 7 Peter Black

Amendment 7 Peter Black

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Add as new point at the end of motion:

Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i gymryd rhan mewn deialog gyda Network Rail a gweithredwyr cludiant cyhoeddus i wella cysylltiadau ar draws y ffin rhwng Gogledd Cymru a Meysydd Awyr Manceinion a Lerpwl.

Calls on the Welsh Government to engage in a dialogue with Network Rail and public transport operators to improve cross border links between North Wales and Manchester and Liverpool Airports.

Gwelliant 8 Peter Black

Amendment 8 Peter Black

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Add as new point at the end of motion:

Yn cefnogi gwaith parhaus Cyngor Abertawe a Llywodraeth Cymru i lunio achos busnes dros drydaneiddio’r brif reilffordd cyn belled ag Abertawe.

Supports on-going work by both Swansea Council and the Welsh Government to draw up a business case to extend electrification of the main line as far as Swansea.

Eluned Parrott: I move amendments 3, 5, 6, 7 and 8 in the name of Peter Black.

Eluned Parrott: Cynigiaf welliannau 3, 5, 6, 7 ac 8 yn enw Peter Black.

I thank the Conservative group, first, for bringing this motion before us today, because it is an interesting issue that we need to address. I also welcome the broad thrust of the motion, although obviously not quite all of it—otherwise there would not be five amendments—particularly with reference to the statements on the airport. I live in Rhoose, about a mile from the airport, and I am sorry to say, Byron Davies, that I am one of the terribly inconvenient commuters who get on your business bus service. The problem is that it is mixed use, and the two groups have different needs.

Diolchaf y grŵp Ceidwadol, yn gyntaf, am gyflwyno’r cynnig hwn ger ein bron heddiw gan ei fod yn fater diddorol y mae angen inni roi sylw iddo. Croesawaf hefyd fyrdwn cyffredinol y cynnig, er yn amlwg ddim yr holl beth—fel arall ni fyddai pum gwelliant—yn enwedig gan gyfeirio at y datganiadau ar y maes awyr. Rydw i’n byw yn y Rhws, tua milltir o’r maes awyr, ac mae’n ddrwg gennyf ddweud, Byron Davies, fy mod yn un o’r cymudwyr ofnadwy o anghyfleus sydd yn defnyddio eich gwasanaeth bws busnes. Y broblem yw ei fod yn wasanaeth defnydd cymysg, ac mae anghenion gwahanol gan y ddau grŵp.

The current transport links to the airport are not adequate. It takes, at best, an hour to travel the 12 miles from the airport to the centre of Cardiff by public transport, provided that you walk off the aeroplane and onto the bus. It takes an hour, provided that you are not driving. It takes a lot longer to use the shuttle bus to the railway station to wait for the hourly service that runs during the week, or once every two hours on the weekend. This is not adequate for an international airport. It is no wonder that the total passenger numbers are declining—down 14 per cent on last year. A total of 1.4 million people used the airport in 2010, compared with 610,000 using Bristol Airport in September alone. It is a shocking decline. It is our only major airport and even the notion of Wales as a country—its national identity—is under threat without an international gateway of our own.

Nid yw’r cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth presennol i’r maes awyr yn ddigonol. Mae’n cymryd, ar y gorau, awr i deithio’r 12 milltir o’r maes awyr i ganol Caerdydd ar drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, ar yr amod eich bod yn cerdded oddi ar yr awyren ac ar y bws. Mae’n cymryd awr, ar yr amod nad ydych yn gyrru. Mae’n cymryd llawer mwy o amser i ddefnyddio’r bws gwennol i’r orsaf reilffordd i aros am y gwasanaeth bob awr sy’n rhedeg yn ystod yr wythnos, neu unwaith bob dwy awr ar y penwythnos. Nid yw hyn yn ddigonol ar gyfer maes awyr rhyngwladol. Nid yw’n syndod bod cyfanswm nifer y teithwyr yn gostwng—i lawr 14 y cant ar y llynedd. Roedd cyfanswm o 1.4 miliwn o bobl wedi defnyddio’r maes awyr yn 2010, o’i gymharu â 610,000 a ddefnyddiodd Maes Awyr Bryste ym mis Medi yn unig. Mae’n ddirywiad syfrdanol. Dyma ein hunig faes awyr mawr ac y mae hyd yn oed y syniad o Gymru fel gwlad—ei hunaniaeth yn genedlaethol—o dan fygythiad heb ein porth rhyngwladol ein hunain.

I have some sympathy with those who seek to reduce the amount of air travel that we do for environmental reasons, but I believe that Wales needs the airport to attract the investment that is necessary for jobs in the private sector and to allow our businesses to access their primary markets, especially in Europe, the Middle East and North America. Those routes are not well served by the airport at the moment.

Mae gennyf rywfaint o gydymdeimlad â rhai sy’n ceisio lleihau faint o deithio awyr a wnawn am resymau amgylcheddol, ond credaf, er mwyn Cymru, fod angen i’r maes awyr ddenu’r buddsoddiad sy’n angenrheidiol ar gyfer swyddi yn y sector preifat ac i alluogi ein busnesau i gael mynediad at eu marchnadoedd sylfaenol, yn enwedig yn Ewrop, y Dwyrain Canol a Gogledd America. Nid yw’r llwybrau hynny’n cael eu gwasanaethu’n dda gan y maes awyr ar hyn o bryd.

Andrew R.T. Davies: In amendment 6, you talk about subsidies for any additional airlines. Do you not recognise that, if that amendment is passed, route establishment grants, which assist the airport in bringing in new airlines, would be ruled out on behalf of the Welsh Government?

Andrew R.T. Davies: Yng ngwelliant 6, rydych yn sôn am gymorthdaliadau ar gyfer unrhyw gwmnïau awyrennau ychwanegol. Onid ydych yn cydnabod, os yw’r gwelliant hwnnw’n pasio, y byddai grantiau sefydlu llwybrau, sy’n helpu’r maes awyr i ddenu cwmnïau awyrennau newydd, yn cael eu diystyru ar ran Llywodraeth Cymru?

Eluned Parrott: I thank the leader of the opposition for that amendment—

Eluned Parrott: Diolch i arweinydd yr wrthblaid am y gwelliant hwnnw—

The Presiding Officer: Order. I think that that was an intervention.

Y Llywydd: Trefn. Rwy’n credu mai ymyriad oedd hwnnw.

Eluned Parrott: For that intervention; my apologies. It is our view that the investment would be better spent on improving the infrastructure that links the airport to the rest of Wales, enabling the routes to become commercially viable. We will have to continue throwing good money after bad on subsidising these flights if we do not invest that money to improve infrastructure. As your colleague Byron Davies has discussed, these will never be commercially viable if, having arrived at Cardiff Airport, you cannot get any further than Rhoose. It is a wonderful place to live, I must say, but I recognise that some people do want to move further than that.

Eluned Parrott: Am yr ymyriad; ymddiheuriadau. Ein barn ni yw y byddai’n well gwario’r buddsoddiad ar wella’r seilwaith sy’n cysylltu’r maes awyr â gweddill Cymru, gan alluogi’r llwybrau i fod yn hyfyw yn fasnachol. Bydd rhaid parhau i daflu arian da ar ôl drwg ar gymhorthdal ar gyfer teithiau awyr os nad ydym yn buddsoddi’r arian hwnnw er mwyn gwella seilwaith. Fel y trafododd eich cyd-Aelod Byron Davies, ni fyddant byth yn fasnachol hyfyw os, wedi cyrraedd maes awyr Caerdydd, ni allwch gyrraedd ymhellach nag y Rhws. Mae’n lle gwych i fyw, rhaid imi ddweud, ond yr wyf yn cydnabod bod rhai pobl eisiau symud ymhellach na hynny.

I will move on to look at some of the other issues raised in the motion. Although moving people is important, one of the things that we need to look at is moving our goods and services around the world, which is important if we want to drive up exports. However, our freight infrastructure is woeful. One obvious example that has been mentioned is the lack of truck stops on Welsh routes. If you look at the figures provided by the International Road Transport Union in its most recent guide to truck parking areas, it mentions 2,000 different lorry parks, only eight of which are in Wales. That is not adequate for our needs if we want to ensure that we support exports and the moving of goods.

Symudaf ymlaen i edrych ar rai o’r materion eraill a gododd yn y cynnig. Er bod symud pobl yn bwysig, un o’r pethau y mae angen inni edrych arno yw symud ein nwyddau a gwasanaethau o gwmpas y byd, sy’n bwysig os ydym am wella allforion. Fodd bynnag, mae ein seilwaith cludo nwyddau yn druenus. Un enghraifft amlwg sydd wedi cael ei grybwyll yw’r diffyg arosfannau lorïau ar lwybrau yng Nghymru. Os edrychwch ar y ffigurau a ddarparwyd gan yr Undeb Trafnidiaeth Ffyrdd Rhyngwladol yn ei ganllaw diweddaraf ar fannau parcio lorïau, mae’n sôn am 2,000 o barciau lorïau gwahanol, a dim ond wyth ohonynt sydd yng Nghymru. Nid yw hynny’n ddigonol ar gyfer ein hanghenion os ydym am sicrhau ein bod yn cefnogi allforion a symud nwyddau.

Moving specifically to our amendments, amendment 5 seeks to focus our attention on the potential for electrifying the Valley lines. In the short term, that will speed up travel times for people living in south Wales, improve the environmental impact of transport and give passengers a better transport experience. What is even more exciting is the potential, in the slightly longer term, to use it as the backbone of an integrated south Wales metro system, which I know is supported by Members from across the Chamber.

Gan symud yn benodol at ein gwelliannau, mae gwelliant 5 yn ceisio canolbwyntio ein sylw ar y potensial ar gyfer trydaneiddio rheilffyrdd y Cymoedd. Yn y tymor byr, bydd yn cyflymu amserau teithio ar gyfer pobl sy’n byw yn ne Cymru, gwella effaith amgylcheddol trafnidiaeth a rhoi profiad trafnidiaeth gwell i deithwyr. Beth sydd hyd yn oed yn fwy cyffrous yw’r potensial, yn y tymor ychydig yn hirach, o’i ddefnyddio fel asgwrn cefn system metro integredig de Cymru, a gwn fod hwnnw’n cael ei gefnogi gan Aelodau o bob rhan o’r Siambr.

In amendment 7, we also seek to recognise the importance of working with Network Rail to deliver services, not only within Wales, but also between Wales and critically important areas of England. We welcome the creation of Network Rail Wales and I welcome the fact that the routes in the borders have been included. It is important that we ensure that cross-border links remain a focus.

Yng ngwelliant 7, rydym hefyd yn ceisio cydnabod pwysigrwydd gweithio gyda Network Rail i ddarparu gwasanaethau, nid yn unig o fewn Cymru, ond hefyd rhwng Cymru ac ardaloedd hanfodol yn Lloegr. Rydym yn croesawu creu Network Rail Cymru a chroesawaf y ffaith bod y llwybrau yn y gororau wedi’u cynnwys. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn sicrhau bod cysylltiadau trawsffiniol yn parhau yn ffocws.

We support Plaid Cymru’s amendment 4 on the devolution of air passenger duty, but we cannot support the Government’s amendments, as we believe that more could have been done in the past to develop our infrastructure and that the failure to do so has damaged Wales economically. For me, that is a reality. The challenge is to accept it, face up to it and do something about it.

Rydym yn cefnogi gwelliant 4 Plaid Cymru ar ddatganoli toll teithwyr awyr, ond ni allwn gefnogi gwelliannau’r Llywodraeth oherwydd credwn y gellid bod wedi gwneud mwy yn y gorffennol i ddatblygu ein seilwaith a bod y methiant i wneud hynny wedi niweidio Cymru yn economaidd. I mi, mai hynny’n realiti. Yr her yw ei dderbyn, ei wynebu a gwneud rhywbeth am y peth.

Gwelliant 4 Jocelyn Davies

Amendment 4 Jocelyn Davies

Cynnwys is-bwynt 2b) newydd ac ail-rifo’r pwyntiau sy’n dilyn:

Insert as new sub point 2b) and renumber accordingly:

b) Parhau i ymgyrchu dros ddatganoli Toll Teithwyr Awyr i Gymru;

b) Continue to campaign for the devolution of Air Passenger Duty to Wales;

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Cynigiaf welliant 4 yn enw Jocelyn Davies.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: I move amendment 4 in the name of Jocelyn Davies.

Yr wyf am ddweud, yn y lle cyntaf, ein bod yn llongyfarch y Blaid Geidwadol am ddwyn y mater hwn i sylw’r Cynulliad. Yr ydym, yn gyffredinol, yn cefnogi’r hyn yr ydych yn ei gynnig, a byddwn yn cefnogi’r cynnig ynghyd â mwyafrif y gwelliannau. Byddwn yn cefnogi gwelliant 1 yn enw Jane Hutt, gan ein bod yn credu ei fod yn cryfhau’r cynnig ac yn gosod cyfrifoldeb ar y Llywodraeth a pherchnogion y maes awyr i weithio gyda’i gilydd i ddatblygu’r safle. I ategu’r pwynt a wnaeth fy nghyfaill Lindsay Whittle, maes awyr TBI ccc yw hwn, a chredaf fod dryswch yn codi o’r ffaith bod Arbetis wedi prynu TBI. Dan enw TBI mae’r maes awyr yn cael ei redeg. Mae’r cwmni yn berchen ar nifer o feysydd awyr ac mae ganddo adnoddau, nid yn unig o fewn TBI ond o fewn cwmni mawr Arbetis, i fuddsoddi yng Nghaerdydd pe bai’n dymuno gwneud hynny. Credaf fod gwelliant 1 yn pwysleisio’r cyfleoedd hynny.

I will start by saying that we congratulate the Conservative Party for bringing this issue to the attention of the Assembly. We are generally supportive of your proposal and we will be supporting the motion, along with a majority of the amendments. We will be supporting amendment 1 in the name of Jane Hutt because we believe that it strengthens the motion and places a responsibility on the Government and the owners of the airport to collaborate and develop the site. To endorse the point that my friend Lindsay Whittle made, the airport is owned by TBI plc, and I believe that there is confusion because the TBI was bought by Abertis. Cardiff airport is run under the TBI name. TBI owns many airports, and it has the resources, not only in TBI but alsi within the larger Arbetis, to invest in Cardiff if it so desired. I believe that amendment 1 emphasises those opportunities.

Ni fyddwn yn cefnogi gwelliant 2 yn enw Jane Hutt a byddwn yn cefnogi gwelliannau 3, 4 a 5. Fel y Ceidwadwyr, ni fyddwn yn cefnogi gwelliant 6 yn enw Peter Black, ond byddwn yn cefnogi gwelliannau 7 ac 8.

We will not be supporting amendment 2 in the name of Jane Hutt, and we will be supporting amendments 3, 4 and 5. Like the Conservatives, we will not support amendment 6 in the name of Peter Black, but we will be supporting amendments 7 and 8.

Yr ydym yn gobeithio bod gwelliant 4 yn cryfhau’r cynnig. Yr oeddwn yn gwrando ar Byron Davies yn cyflwyno’r rhesymeg dros y cynnig hwn. Mae’n debyg, o’r hyn yr oeddwn yn ei ddeall, mai ei ddadl yw y byddai gwella’r cysylltiad ffordd rhwng Caerdydd a’r maes awyr yn sicrhau bod mwy o bobl yn teithio o faes awyr Caerdydd. Cyfeiriodd at faes awyr Bryste. Nid wyf yn gwybod a wyt wedi ceisio teithio i faes awyr Bryste, Byron; mae’n daith hunllefus—lawer gwaeth na’r daith i faes awyr Caerdydd. Felly, os mai cymhariaeth gyda Bryste sydd yma, a bod Bryste yn llwyddo a Chaerdydd yn methu, mae gennyf ofn fod y rhesymeg yn methu yn y cyd-destun hwnnw.

We hope that amendment 4 strengthens the motion. I listened to Byron Davies presenting the rationale behind this motion. As I understand it, he is arguing that improving the road link between Cardiff and the airport would ensure that more people travel from Cardiff airport. He referred to Bristol airport. I do not know, Byron, whether you have ever tried to travel to Bristol airport; it is a nightmare journey—much worse than the journey to Cardiff airport. So if this is a comparison with Bristol, and that Bristol is succeeding while Cardiff is failing, I am afraid that your logic fails in that context.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Thank you for taking my intervention. The one thing that Bristol has over Cardiff is a far wider and denser catchment area of population, so even if some people choose not to use Bristol airport, there are reserves of population that will always use it. Cardiff has a limited pool to draw customers from, so it needs good communications to access the airport.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Diolch am dderbyn fy ymyriad. Yr un peth sydd gan Fryste dros Gaerdydd yw ardal dalgylch ehangach a dwysach o boblogaeth, felly hyd yn oed os yw rhai pobl yn dewis peidio â defnyddio maes awyr Bryste, mae yna gyflenwad o boblogaeth a fydd bob amser yn ei ddefnyddio. Mae gan Gaerdydd gronfa gyfyngedig o gwsmeriaid i dynnu oddi wrtho, felly mae angen arno gysylltiadau da er mwyn cael mynediad at y maes awyr.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: I do not think that you have helped Byron Davies with that intervention, to be honest. It does not add up. The density of population does not make up for the fact that the rationale being proposed is that, if you improve the road links, more people will travel from Cardiff. That does not follow. Investment has already been made, but the important thing is that Cardiff has potential, and that potential has not been developed fully as yet.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Nid wyf yn credu eich bod wedi helpu Byron Davies gyda’r ymyriad hwnnw, a bod yn onest. Nid yw’n gwneud synnwyr. Nid yw dwysedd y boblogaeth yn gwneud iawn am y ffaith mai’r sail resymegol a gynigir yw, os ydych yn gwella cysylltiadau ffyrdd, bydd mwy o bobl yn teithio o Gaerdydd. Nid yw hynny’n dilyn. Mae buddsoddiad eisoes wedi’i wneud, ond y peth pwysig yw bod gan Gaerdydd botensial, ac nid yw’r potensial hwnnw wedi’i ddatblygu’n llawn hyd yma.

I droi at welliant 4 yn enw Jocelyn Davies, credaf ei fod yn eithriadol o bwysig. Mae’r ardoll teithwyr awyr yn dreth gymharol fach, ond mae posibiliadau o ran ei datganoli. Deallaf fod y Prif Weinidog wedi mynegi rhywfaint o gefnogaeth i’r syniad; mae symudiadau eisoes wedi digwydd yng Ngogledd Iwerddon ac yn symud ar hyn o bryd yn yr Alban. Fel arfer, mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn araf yn ymateb i’r cyfle hwn. Mae potensial yma. Ni allwn ddisgwyl i gomisiwn Silk ddod i benderfyniad ar hyn; mae angen symud yn awr. Galwaf y prynhawn yma ar Lywodraeth Cymru i symud i sicrhau datganoli’r ardoll hwn er mwyn sicrhau ein bod yn gallu ei ddefnyddio mewn ffordd greadigol i gefnogi maes awyr Caerdydd ac i wneud y gorau o botensial y safle.

Turning to amendment 4 in the name of Jocelyn Davies, I believe that this is exceptionally important. The air passenger duty is a comparatively small tax, but there are possibilities as regards devolving the duty. I understand that the First Minister has expressed some support for that idea; moves have already been made in Northern Ireland, and it is happening in Scotland. As usual, the Welsh Government is slow in responding to this opportunity. There is potential here. We cannot expect the Silk commission to come to a determination on this; we need to move now. I call this afternoon for the Welsh Government to move to secure the devolution of this duty so that we can use it in a creative way to support the airport in Cardiff, and to make the best of its potential.

Mae’n rhaid gofyn cwestiwn ynglŷn â rheolaeth y maes awyr a’r ffaith bod nifer o gwmnïau fel pe baent wedi cael eu gwrthod gan y maes awyr. Mae’n bwysig bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn cydweithio gyda’r maes awyr er mwyn sicrhau datblygiad y safle. Byddai’n braf clywed gan y Gweinidog y prynhawn yma a yw’n cytuno gyda’r Prif Weinidog bod angen datganoli’r cyfrifoldeb am yr ardoll teithwyr awyr, ac a yw’n fodlon ymrwymo y prynhawn yma y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithredu—

A question has to be asked about the management of the airport, and the fact that a number of companies seem to have been rejected by Cardiff airport. It is important that the Welsh Government works with the airport to secure the development of the site. It would be good to hear from the Minister this afternoon whether he agrees with the First Minister that there is a need to devolve responsibility for the air passenger duty, and whether he can give us a commitment this afternoon that the Welsh Government will act—

Mike Hedges: You want to devolve air passenger control and air passenger duty—do you want it devolved inside the block grant, or outside the block? Do you want it taken off the block and then devolved, or do you want it devolved as well as the block?

Mike Hedges: Rydych am ddatganoli rheolaeth teithwyr awyr a tholl teithwyr awyr—a ydych chi eisiau ei ddatganoli y tu mewn i’r grant bloc neu y tu allan i’r bloc? A ydych chi am ei dynnu oddi ar y bloc a’i ddatganoli wedyn neu a ydych am ei ddatganoli yn ogystal â’r bloc?

3.30 p.m.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: If you look at the model in Northern Ireland, you will see that the contribution to the block reduced dramatically when it was devolved to Northern Ireland. Therefore, it will not only be supportive of Cardiff Airport, but useful with regard to the block and the Welsh Government’s contribution. Therefore, again, I asked the Minister to give us a guarantee and an undertaking this afternoon that they will press for this duty to be devolved to Wales.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Os edrychwch ar y model yng Ngogledd Iwerddon, byddwch yn gweld y gostyngodd y cyfraniad at y bloc yn ddramatig pan gafodd ei ddatganoli i Ogledd Iwerddon. Felly, bydd hyn nid yn unig o gymorth i Faes Awyr Caerdydd, ond bydd yn ddefnyddiol o ran y bloc a chyfraniad Llywodraeth Cymru. Felly, unwaith eto, gofynnais i’r Gweinidog roi sicrwydd ac ymrwymiad i ni y prynhawn yma y bydd yn pwyso dros ddatganoli’r ddyletswydd hon i Gymru.

Mohammad Asghar: A successful, prosperous economy relies heavily on an excellent transport infrastructure. As our international gateway, Cardiff Airport is central to that, but, sadly, figures from last year paint a grim picture. In 2010, there was a 5 per cent decrease in aircraft movements on the previous year, and a 14 per cent decrease in the total number of passengers using the airport. Furthermore, there was a massive 84 per cent decrease in the total freight handled, while 120,000 fewer passengers used the airport to travel to and from international destinations. Clearly, a concerted marketing campaign is required from the Welsh Government to attract the aviation sector to Wales, as these concerning trends cannot continue.

Mohammad Asghar: Mae economi ffyniannus a llwyddiannus yn dibynnu’n fawr ar seilwaith trafnidiaeth ardderchog. Fel ein porth rhyngwladol, mae Maes Awyr Caerdydd yn ganolog i hynny, ond, yn anffodus, mae ffigurau’r llynedd yn peintio  darlun difrifol. Yn 2010, cafwyd gostyngiad o 5 y cant mewn symudiadau awyrennau o’r flwyddyn flaenorol, a gostyngiad o 14 y cant yng nghyfanswm nifer y teithwyr a ddefnyddiodd y maes awyr. At hynny, yr oedd gostyngiad enfawr o 84 y cant yng nghyfanswm y nwyddau a gludwyd, tra bod 120,000 yn llai o bobl wedi defnyddio’r maes awyr i deithio i gyrchfannau rhyngwladol neu o’r cyrchfannau hynny. Yn amlwg, mae angen ymgyrch farchnata ar y cyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru i ddenu’r sector hedfan i Gymru, gan na all y tueddiadau gofidus hyn barhau.

Additionally, accessibility to the airport for the surrounding areas is crucial if we are to increase passenger levels. The decision to cancel the airport access road could be detrimental. Mike Rutter, the Flybe boss, has said that the quality of roads and railways around the Rhoose hub are a deterrent to holidaymakers in using the airport, who may, instead, use services from Bristol or other airports. I am concerned about the distinct lack of ambition shown by the Welsh Government in supporting and marketing the airport. Reports suggest that concerns about Cardiff Airport could dash hopes of attracting a UEFA Champions League final to Wales.

Yn ogystal, mae hygyrchedd y maes awyr o ardaloedd cyfagos yn hollbwysig os ydym i gynyddu nifer y teithwyr. Gallai’r penderfyniad i ganslo ffordd dynesu’r maes awyr fod yn niweidiol. Mae Mike Rutter, rheolwr Flybe, wedi dweud bod ansawdd y ffyrdd a rheilffyrdd o amgylch canolbwynt Rhws yn rhwystro ymwelwyr rhag defnyddio’r maes awyr ac, o’r herwydd, mae’n bosib y byddant yn defnyddio gwasanaethau o Fryste neu feysydd awyr eraill. Yr wyf yn pryderu am ddiffyg uchelgais amlwg Llywodraeth Cymru o ran cefnogi a marchnata’r maes awyr. Mae adroddiadau sy’n awgrymu y gallai pryderon am Faes Awyr Caerdydd chwalu’r gobeithion am ddenu rownd derfynol Cynghrair Pencampwyr UEFA i Gymru.

Mick Antoniw: You seem to suggest that the problems with the airport lie at the door of the Welsh Government. I was a director of the airport in the early 1980s when it was owned and funded by the three councils that developed it and paid for the runway, until the then Tory Government forced us, as the airport was making a profit, to privatise it. I remember the debate at that time, and the Conservatives said, ‘The airport will not look back’. That is true, but it has just never looked forward since.

Mick Antoniw: Ymddengys eich bod yn awgrymu mai cyfrifoldeb Llywodraeth Cymru yw’r problemau gyda’r maes awyr. Bûm i’n un o gyfarwyddwyr y maes awyr yn gynnar yn y 1980au pan oedd yn eiddo ac wedi ei ariannu gan y tri chyngor a’i datblygodd ac a dalodd am y rhedfa, hyd nes i’r Llywodraeth Dorïaidd ar y pryd ein gorfodi, am fod y maes awyr yn gwneud elw, i’w breifateiddio. Cofiaf y drafodaeth ar y pryd. Dywedodd y Ceidwadwyr, ‘Ni fydd y maes awyr yn edrych yn ôl’. Mae hynny’n wir, ond nid yw wedi edrych ymlaen ers hynny.

Mohammad Asghar: I openly tell my colleagues in this Chamber that there are only two people who hold a private pilot licence: one is Byron and the other is me. I therefore know what Cardiff Airport is like. Only two years ago, when the then Minister for the Economy and Transport was financially helping the airport, I said in a meeting that he was putting his money in the wrong place. You can confirm that with the previous Minister. This airport can be improved. Wales is an attraction for overseas tourists, but the transportation issue to and from the airport is a hindrance to those people. The situation is a nonsense.

Mohammad Asghar: Yr wyf yn dweud yn agored wrth fy nghyd-Aelodau yn y Siambr hon mai dim ond dau berson sy’n meddu ar drwydded beilot breifat: mae Byron yn un a fi yw’r llall. Felly, yr wyf yn gwybod beth yw hyd a lled Maes Awyr Caerdydd. Dim ond dwy flynedd yn ôl, pan oedd y Gweinidog dros yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth ar y pryd yn helpu’r maes awyr yn ariannol, dywedais mewn cyfarfod ei fod yn rhoi ei arian yn y lle anghywir. Gallwch chi gadarnhau hynny gyda’r Gweinidog blaenorol. Mae modd gwella’r  maes awyr hwn. Mae Cymru yn atyniad i dwristiaid o dramor, ond mae trafnidiaeth i’r maes awyr ac oddi wrtho yn rhwystr i’r bobl hynny. Mae’r sefyllfa yn ddwl.

Surely, there must be an admission of failure on the Welsh Government’s part to actively work with airport owners, airlines and other stakeholders to help the airport grow. My region of South Wales East has suffered considerably as a consequence of the Welsh Government dithering on crucial transport and infrastructure issues.

Yn sicr, mae’n rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru gyfaddef ei bod wedi methu â gweithio’n rhagweithiol gyda pherchnogion y maes awyr, cwmnïau awyrennau a rhanddeiliaid eraill i helpu’r maes awyr dyfu. Mae fy rhanbarth i, sef Dwyrain De Cymru, wedi dioddef yn sylweddol o ganlyniad i betruso Llywodraeth Cymru ar faterion trafnidiaeth a seilwaith hanfodol.

The decision to scrap the M4 relief road means that there is no obvious solution to dealing with the congestion problems that continue to blight commuters around the Newport area. The bottleneck that exists continues to hamper economic growth in south-east Wales, and while I have cautiously welcomed the launch of a rail link express bus service between Newport and Rogerstone, this must be promoted rigorously by the Welsh Government. The aim must still be towards achieving a fully functioning direct rail link between Ebbw Vale and Newport, which would properly enhance connectivity between the city and surrounding Valleys communities.

Mae’r penderfyniad i gael gwared ar ffordd liniaru’r M4 yn golygu nad oes unrhyw ateb amlwg i ddelio â phroblemau tagfeydd sy’n parhau i amharu ar gymudwyr yn ardal Casnewydd. Mae’r dagfa yno yn parhau i amharu ar dwf economaidd de-ddwyrain Cymru, ac, er fy mod wedi rhoi croeso gofalus i lansiad gwasanaeth bws cyflym sy’n cysylltu â gwasanaethau rheilffordd rhwng Casnewydd a’r Tŷ-du, mae’n rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru ei hyrwyddo yn drylwyr. Y mae’n rhaid parhau i anelu at gael cyswllt rheilffordd uniongyrchol cwbl weithredol rhwng Glynebwy a Chasnewydd a fyddai’n gwella cysylltedd rhwng y ddinas a chymunedau cyfagos y Cymoedd.

Across Wales, there is also significant concern regarding a lack of adequate truck-stops across main carriageways, which not only impacts upon the effective movement of goods and people, but is intrinsically unsafe. I hope that the Welsh Government offers a substantial response to this concern today. Sadly, this Government has a disappointing record in terms of transport projects. As mentioned, not only have we seen the cancellations of projects such as the relief road and the airport access road, but, for 18 major transport projects in Wales, costs have on average been 61 per cent higher than original estimates. This administration must have a better record if we are to deliver effective economic growth.

Ar draws Cymru, mae yna hefyd bryder sylweddol ynglŷn â diffyg arosfannau digonol ar gyfer lorïau ar hyd priffyrdd, sy’n effeithio ar symud nwyddau a phobl yn effeithiol ac sydd, yn y bôn, yn ​​anniogel. Gobeithiaf y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn cynnig ymateb sylweddol i’r pryder hwn heddiw. Yn anffodus, mae gan y Llywodraeth hon record siomedig o ran prosiectau trafnidiaeth. Fel y crybwyllwyd, nid yn unig y gwelsom brosiectau megis y ffordd liniaru a’r ffordd at y maes awyr yn cael eu canslo, ond, mewn 18 prosiect trafnidiaeth yng Nghymru, mae’r costau ar gyfartaledd wedi bod 61 y cant yn uwch na’r amcangyfrifon gwreiddiol. Mae’n rhaid i’r weinyddiaeth hon wneud yn well os ydym yn mynd i sicrhau twf economaidd effeithiol.

Vaughan Gething: I am also pleased to speak in this debate, particularly about the wider point on transport infrastructure. There is a significant challenge for this Assembly to deliver and develop infrastructure in our transport system. We all know that this is against a backdrop of a significant cut in capital from the UK Government. This will be directly harmful and will provide real challenges to our Government in trying to deliver and develop infrastructure projects.

Vaughan Gething: Yr wyf i hefyd yn falch i siarad yn y ddadl hon, yn enwedig ynghylch y pwynt ehangach am y seilwaith trafnidiaeth. Mae her sylweddol i’r Cynulliad hwn i ddarparu a datblygu seilwaith yn ein system drafnidiaeth. Yr ydym i gyd yn gwybod am gefndir y toriad cyfalaf sylweddol gan Lywodraeth y DU. Bydd hyn yn uniongyrchol niweidiol gan roi heriau gwirioneddol i’n Llywodraeth wrth iddi geisio darparu a datblygu prosiectau seilwaith.

Members across the Chamber, and across all parties, acknowledge that the success of the south Wales economy in particular is tied up in improving the transport infrastructure and the networks that we already have. When I talk about transport infrastructure, I talk not just about roads, but rail, cycling and walking, to make it easier to have an effective choice about how people get to work and how we get people to different places. I am convinced that within the context of the next four or five years, when we think about how we can best invest in having a workable network to get people around this part of the UK, we need to look at the fact that we have difficult choices to make about where we spend our money and from where we get best value. We all know that road projects are often popular with motorists, but they are also massively expensive. We will have difficult choices to make about those projects we support and those we do not. I am convinced that investment in our railways infrastructure will produce much more significant gains for the wider public and businesses.

Mae Aelodau ar draws y Siambr, ac ar draws pob plaid, yn cydnabod bod llwyddiant economi de Cymru yn benodol ynghlwm wrth wella’r seilwaith trafnidiaeth a’r rhwydweithiau sydd gennym eisoes. Pan fyddaf yn siarad am seilwaith trafnidiaeth, nid wyf yn siarad yn unig am y ffyrdd, ond am reilffyrdd, beicio a cherdded, fel ei bod yn haws i bobl wneud dewis effeithiol o ran cyrraedd y gwaith a chyrraedd gwahanol leoedd. Yr wyf yn argyhoeddedig, yng nghyd-destun y pedair neu bum mlynedd nesaf, pan fyddwn yn meddwl am sut orau i fuddsoddi er mwyn cael rhwydwaith ymarferol i symud pobl o amgylch y rhan hon o’r DU, bydd angen i ni edrych ar y ffaith bod gennym ddewisiadau anodd i’w gwneud am ble yr ydym yn gwario ein harian ac o ble yr ydym yn cael y gwerth gorau. Yr ydym i gyd yn gwybod bod prosiectau ffyrdd yn aml yn boblogaidd ymhlith modurwyr, ond maent hefyd yn aruthrol o ddrud. Bydd gennym ddewisiadau anodd i’w gwneud ynghylch pa brosiectau yr ydym yn eu cefnogi ai peidio. Yr wyf yn argyhoeddedig y bydd y buddsoddiad yn ein seilwaith rheilffyrdd yn cynhyrchu enillion llawer mwy arwyddocaol ar gyfer busnesau a’r cyhoedd yn ehangach.

I welcome the fact that Network Rail has devolved an element of its railway structure, and I look forward to great priority being given by this Government to railways development. I am pleased with the commitment we had in our manifesto to have a not-for-profit structure to the new franchise in Wales. There is a real opportunity for co-operative or mutual development in railways. We all know that co-operative and mutual companies are not simply small businesses; they can, and, do, run significant enterprises in all sections of the economy.

Croesawaf y ffaith bod Network Rail wedi datganoli elfen o’i strwythur rheilffordd, ac edrychaf ymlaen at y flaenoriaeth fawr fydd  y Llywodraeth hon yn ei rhoi i ddatblygu rheilffyrdd. Yr wyf yn falch o’r ymrwymiad yn ein maniffesto i gael strwythur dielw i’r fasnachfraint newydd yng Nghymru. Mae cyfle gwirioneddol o ran datblygu cydweithredol neu gydfuddiannol mewn rheilffyrdd. Yr ydym i gyd yn gwybod nad busnesau bach yn unig yw cwmnïau cydweithredol a chydfuddiannol; gallant ac maent yn rhedeg mentrau sylweddol ym mhob rhan o’r economi.

It is important for all of us, regardless of party, to get behind the Government in the business case it is producing for Valleys electrification. When we talk about the need to try to improve transport infrastructure—and we talk about it in many different terms—without that investment in Valleys electrification, many of the things that we want to see happen, including a metro service, cannot take place. Therefore, it is in the interest of all of us to ensure that we get behind it, and not just here, in this Chamber, but in Westminster. We need our MPs to be very much on board in supporting the Government in its effort to secure that investment in the network.

Mae’n bwysig bod pob un ohonom, waeth beth yw ein plaid, yn cefnogi’r Llywodraeth wrth iddi gynhyrchu achos busnes dros drydaneiddio yn y Cymoedd. Pan fyddwn yn sôn am yr angen i geisio gwella’r seilwaith trafnidiaeth—a defnyddiwn sawl term wrth siarad amdano—heb fuddsoddi mewn trydaneiddio yn y Cymoedd, ni all llawer o’r pethau yr ydym am eu gweld, gan gynnwys gwasanaeth metro, ddigwydd. Felly, byddai pob un ohonom ar ein hennill drwy fod yn gefnogol, ac nid yn unig yma, yn y Siambr hon, ond yn San Steffan. Yr ydym angen i’n ASau gefnogi’r Llywodraeth yn frwd yn ei hymdrech i sicrhau’r buddsoddiad hwnnw yn y rhwydwaith.

When we think about how we get around, and how we connect people and places, it is important to think about the current demographics of commuter travel. About 28,000 people commute into Swansea each day to work, about 27,000 commute into Newport, and over 80,000 commute into Cardiff. I know points have been made about the densities around Bristol and Cardiff, but, actually, within the immediate travel-to-work area, there are more people within the Cardiff travel-to-work area than the Bristol travel-to-work area. Approximately, 1.4 million people live within a 30-mile radius of the city of Cardiff. That is a huge incentive for us to get transport infrastructure right in this part of the country. 

Pan fyddwn yn meddwl am sut yr ydym yn symud o gwmpas, a sut yr ydym yn cysylltu pobl a lleoedd, mae’n bwysig meddwl am ddemograffeg bresennol cymudo. Mae tua 28,000 o bobl yn cymudo i mewn i Abertawe bob dydd i weithio, tua 27,000 i Gasnewydd, a dros 80,000 i Gaerdydd. Gwn y gwnaed pwyntiau am y mannau dwys o amgylch Bryste a Chaerdydd, ond, mewn gwirionedd, yn yr ardal teithio-i’r-gwaith cyfagos, mae mwy o bobl yn ardal teithio-i’r-gwaith Caerdydd nag yn ardal teithio-i’r-gwaith Bryste. Mae tua 1.4 miliwn o bobl yn byw o fewn 30 milltir i ddinas Caerdydd. Mae hynny’n gymhelliant enfawr i ni i gael y seilwaith trafnidiaeth yn iawn yn y rhan hon o’r wlad. 

Investing in railways does not just improve services for passengers or bring wider benefits to the economy, but it makes them more productive. In discussions I have had with businesses about business investment and location decisions, the ability to get people into work is a huge factor. In fact, when Legal and General came here, it was not so sure whether it would relocate to this part of the world given our current infrastructure for getting people around. That shows that there will be significant problems if we do not get this right in the future. We are talking not just about passenger rail, but about rail freight, which is vital because it brings over £870 million into the economy. With Port Talbot steelworks being one of the biggest industrial railway destinations, Network Rail says that 15 per cent of the UK’s rail freight passes through Cardiff. That is largely because of Port Talbot.

Mae buddsoddi mewn rheilffyrdd nid yn unig yn gwella gwasanaethau ar gyfer teithwyr ac yn dod â manteision ehangach i’r economi, ond mae’n eu gwneud yn fwy cynhyrchiol. Mewn trafodaethau yr wyf wedi’u cael gyda busnesau am benderfyniadau buddsoddi a lleoli busnes, mae’r gallu i gael pobl i mewn i’r gwaith yn ffactor enfawr. Yn wir, pan ddaeth Legal and General yma, nid oedd yn hollol siŵr a fyddai’n adleoli i’r fan hon o ystyried ein seilwaith presennol ar gyfer symud pobl o gwmpas y lle. Mae hynny’n dangos y bydd problemau sylweddol os na chawn ni hyn yn iawn yn y dyfodol. Yr ydym yn sôn nid yn unig am reilffordd i deithwyr, ond am gludo nwyddau ar drenau, sy’n hanfodol gan ei fod yn dod â dros £870 miliwn i’r economi. Gyda gwaith dur Port Talbot yn un o’r cyrchfannau rheilffordd diwydiannol mwyaf, mae Network Rail yn dweud bod 15 y cant o’r nwyddau a gludir ar y rheilffyrdd yn y DU yn mynd drwy Gaerdydd. Mae hynny’n bennaf oherwydd Port Talbot.

I look forward to seeing the Government continue to develop a vision to ensure that Wales has a world-leading role in developing a transport infrastructure network, but we must recognise the times that we are in. I am happy to support our Government’s effort to ensure that Wales becomes a place where we really can be proud of our passenger network.

Edrychaf ymlaen at weld y Llywodraeth yn parhau i ddatblygu gweledigaeth i sicrhau bod gan Gymru rôl flaengar o ran datblygu rhwydwaith seilwaith trafnidiaeth, ond mae’n rhaid i ni gydnabod yr amseroedd yr ydym yn gweithredu ynddynt. Yr wyf yn hapus i gefnogi ymdrech ein Llywodraeth i sicrhau bod Cymru yn dod yn wlad lle byddwn yn wir yn gallu ymfalchïo yn ein rhwydwaith ar gyfer teithwyr.

Russell George: While I want to focus on the national picture, I also want to bring some self-interest in relation to my contribution by focusing on the interventions around the A483 at Newtown. The Minister knows all too well my concerns about this project moving forward, and the Government has identified in the national transport plan that this is a strategic road programme. The road is a major corridor for transport across Wales, from north to south, and east to west, but it has been a road bottleneck for longer than I care to remember. In fact, I have a picture in my office from 1974, the year I was born, which is an aerial view of the congestion through the town. Yet, the Government seems to be dragging its heels on the start of the construction phase.

Russell George: Er fy mod yn awyddus i ganolbwyntio ar y darlun cenedlaethol, yr wyf hefyd yn awyddus i ddod â pheth hunan-fudd i mewn i’m cyfraniad drwy ganolbwyntio ar yr ymyriadau o gwmpas yr A483 yn y Drenewydd. Mae’r Gweinidog yn gwybod yn iawn am fy mhryderon ynglŷn â’r prosiect hwn a’i ddatblygiad, ac mae’r Llywodraeth wedi nodi yn y cynllun trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol fod hon yn rhaglen ffyrdd strategol. Mae’r ffordd yn goridor pwysig i drafnidiaeth ledled Cymru, o’r gogledd i’r de, ac o’r dwyrain i’r gorllewin, ond mae wedi bod yn dagfa ffordd am ormod o amser. Mewn gwirionedd, mae gennyf ddarlun yn fy swyddfa o 1974, sef y flwyddyn y’m ganed, sy’n olygfa o’r awyr o’r tagfeydd drwy’r dref. Eto i gyd, ymddengys fod y Llywodraeth yn llusgo’i thraed ar gychwyn y cyfnod adeiladu.

The national plan states that construction should begin before 2014, yet, from recent correspondence with the Minister and his department, I understand that the timetable has slipped considerably. Last month, your officials wrote to concerned constituents to say that it would not start until 2015. This is in sharp contrast to the message that was conveyed less than nine months ago to my colleague, Glyn Davies MP who, after meeting with your predecessor and Government officials, was told that the project would begin in 2013. I would like to know what has fundamentally changed in nine months.

Mae’r cynllun cenedlaethol yn datgan y dylai gwaith adeiladu ddechrau cyn 2014, ac eto, drwy ohebiaeth ddiweddar gyda’r Gweinidog a’i adran, deallaf fod yr amserlen wedi llithro yn sylweddol. Y mis diwethaf, ysgrifennodd eich swyddogion at etholwyr pryderus i ddweud na fyddai’n dechrau tan 2015. Mae hyn yn neges dra gwahanol i’r un a gyflëwyd lai na naw mis yn ôl i’m cydweithiwr Glyn Davies AS, a oedd, ar ôl cyfarfod â’ch rhagflaenydd a swyddogion y Llywodraeth, wedi cael gwybod y byddai’r prosiect yn dechrau yn 2013. Hoffwn wybod beth sydd wedi newid yn sylfaenol mewn naw mis.

This situation was exacerbated further last week by articles in the Western Mail and my local newspaper, the County Times, which showed that the Government has been wasting money developing stretches of road that would yield a poor return on investment. The Department for Transport in Westminster sets criteria whereby transport schemes should produce benefits of double the construction cost. Only seven projects in the national transport plan met that criterion, and the Newtown bypass was one of them. In fact, at nearly £70 million, it is ranked the fourth most valuable scheme in the country.

Gwaethygwyd y sefyllfa hon ymhellach yr wythnos diwethaf gan erthyglau yn y Western Mail a’m papur newydd lleol, y County Times, a oedd yn dangos bod y Llywodraeth wedi bod yn gwastraffu arian yn datblygu darnau o ffordd a fyddai’n dod ag elw gwael o fuddsoddiad. Un o feini prawf yr Adran Drafnidiaeth yn San Steffan yw y dylai cynlluniau trafnidiaeth gynhyrchu manteision sydd yn werth dwbl cost yr adeiladu. Dim ond saith prosiect yn y cynllun trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol a oedd yn cwrdd â’r maen prawf hwnnw, ac yr oedd ffordd osgoi’r Drenewydd yn un ohonynt. Yn wir, gyda bron £70 miliwn, dyma’r  pedwerydd cynllun mwyaf gwerthfawr yn y wlad.

The Deputy Minister for Agriculture, Food, Fisheries and European Programmes criticised us two weeks ago in our debate on the rural economy, saying that we offered no solutions to the problems of rural Wales. The solution in clear: the Government needs to prioritise road projects in rural Wales in order to get maximum value out of each pound spent. It will also send a clear message to businesses in rural Wales that the Government is willing to invest in the future of key towns, such as Newtown, which are currently in danger of withering away.

Beirniadodd y Dirprwy Weinidog Amaethyddiaeth, Bwyd, Pysgodfeydd a Rhaglenni Ewropeaidd ni bythefnos yn ôl yn ein dadl ar yr economi wledig, gan ddweud nad oeddem yn cynnig unrhyw atebion i broblemau cefn gwlad Cymru. Mae’r ateb yn glir: mae angen i’r Llywodraeth flaenoriaethu prosiectau ffyrdd yng nghefn gwlad Cymru er mwyn cael y gwerth mwyaf allan o bob punt a wariwyd. Bydd hefyd yn anfon neges glir i fusnesau yng nghefn gwlad Cymru fod y Llywodraeth yn barod i fuddsoddi yn nyfodol trefi allweddol, fel y Drenewydd, sydd ar hyn o bryd mewn perygl o wywo.

A conference centre called Cefn Lea Park, which is only six miles outside of Newtown, attracts 20,000 guests each year. The staff tell me that a group from London, which attends every Friday evening, complain every week that they had an easy way there, all the way from London, until they hit Newtown.

Mae canolfan gynadledda o’r enw Parc Cefn Lea, sydd ond chwe milltir y tu allan i’r Drenewydd, yn denu 20,000 o ymwelwyr bob blwyddyn. Mae’r staff yn dweud wrthyf fod grŵp o Lundain, sy’n mynychu bob nos Wener, yn cwyno bob wythnos iddynt gael siwrne hawdd yno, yr holl ffordd o Lundain, hyd nes iddynt gyrraedd y Drenewydd.

Minister, you have stated that, this autumn, you would be reviewing the projects in the transport plan, but time is ticking away. Therefore, in your reply, I would like to know when this will be published, that you will be prioritising the seven major projects with the highest investment return and that the Newtown bypass will be started on time.

Weinidog, yr ydych wedi dweud y byddech yn adolygu’r prosiectau yn y cynllun trafnidiaeth yr hydref hwn, ond mae amser yn tician heibio. Felly, yn eich ateb, hoffwn gael gwybod pryd y caiff hyn ei gyhoeddi, y byddwch yn blaenoriaethu’r saith prosiect mawr gyda’r elw mwyaf yng nghyswllt y buddsoddiad, ac y caiff ffordd osgoi’r Drenewydd ei dechrau ar amser.

Aled Roberts: All of us across the Chamber would agree that the transport infrastructure network in Wales leaves a lot to be desired. It probably is due to decades of underinvestment and, certainly, in the current climate, the Minister has a difficult task in bringing improvements to the transport network.

Aled Roberts: Byddai pob un ohonom ar draws y Siambr yn cytuno bod rhwydwaith seilwaith trafnidiaeth Cymru ymhell o fod yn foddhaol. Mae’n debyg bod hyn oherwydd degawdau o danfuddsoddi ac, yn sicr, yn yr hinsawdd bresennol, mae gan y Gweinidog dasg anodd wrth ddod â gwelliannau i’r rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth.

While recognising that the vast majority of the population live in close proximity to the Cardiff area, and recognising the issues to do with the airport, our amendment today asks that the Assembly shows the airport’s relevance to the whole of Wales.

Wrth gydnabod bod mwyafrif helaeth y boblogaeth yn byw yn agos at ardal Caerdydd, a chydnabod y materion sy’n ymwneud â’r maes awyr, mae ein gwelliant heddiw yn gofyn i’r Cynulliad ddangos perthnasedd y maes awyr i Gymru gyfan. 

3.45 p.m.

I am sure that the Minister, given the constituency that he represents, does not need reminding of the difficulties that passengers in north Wales also face. The reality, as Byron Davies has already outlined, is that we will never get to a situation where most of the population in north Wales, and perhaps the greater part of mid Wales, will look at Cardiff as being their natural international airport. That said, if there are priorities for the Government, I accept that those priorities would be around Cardiff Airport. However, I would like to outline to Members some of the difficulties that people in north Wales face with regard to accessing either Manchester or Liverpool airports by anything other than a car. It is the responsibility of the Minister to ensure that, when we develop our national transport plan, he takes into account the cross-border links with England. Certainly, we might be in a better position to influence those now that we have the devolved arrangements with regard to Network Rail. 

Yr wyf yn siŵr nad oes angen atgoffa’r Gweinidog, o ystyried yr etholaeth mae’n ei chynrychioli, am yr anawsterau mae teithwyr yn y gogledd hefyd yn eu hwynebu. Y gwirionedd, fel yr amlinellodd Byron Davies eisoes, yw na fyddwn byth yn cyrraedd sefyllfa lle mae’r rhan fwyaf o boblogaeth y gogledd, ac efallai’r rhan fwyaf o ganolbarth Cymru, yn ystyried Caerdydd fel lleoliad eu maes awyr rhyngwladol naturiol. Wedi dweud hynny, os oes blaenoriaethau ar gyfer y Llywodraeth, yr wyf yn derbyn y byddent yn ymwneud â Maes Awyr Caerdydd. Fodd bynnag, hoffwn amlinellu i’r Aelodau rai o’r anawsterau y mae pobl yn y gogledd yn eu hwynebu o ran cael mynediad at feysydd awyr naill ai Manceinion neu Lerpwl drwy unrhyw ddull ac eithrio car. Cyfrifoldeb y Gweinidog yw sicrhau, wrth i ni ddatblygu ein cynllun trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol, ei fod yn ystyried y cysylltiadau traws-ffiniol â Lloegr. Yn sicr, gallem fod mewn sefyllfa well i ddylanwadu ar y rheini bellach gyda threfniadau datganoledig Network Rail. 

I would like to give the Senedd this afternoon two examples of the problems that we face. The Minister will be aware that there has been a long-awaited improvement at the Halton Curve, which is a major bottleneck in terms of the current rail links between north Wales and Manchester. The full reinstatement of that curve would allow for the development of services between north Wales and Liverpool Lime Street. The Minister might also know that the Mersey Dee Alliance and the north Wales economic forum have ensured that improvements to the Halton Curve are included both within the north Wales transport plan and in similar plans across the border in England. These trains, if the Halton Curve was re-established, would allow for direct access between the new Liverpool South Parkway station and Liverpool John Lennon Airport—a significant improvement to the transport situation in north Wales.

Hoffwn roi dwy enghraifft i’r Senedd y prynhawn yma o’r problemau sy’n ein hwynebu. Bydd y Gweinidog yn ymwybodol y bu gwelliant hir-ddisgwyliedig yn Halton Curve, sydd yn dagfa fawr o ran y cysylltiadau rheilffyrdd presennol rhwng gogledd Cymru a Manceinion. Byddai adfer  y drofa yn llawn yn caniatáu datblygu gwasanaethau rhwng gogledd Cymru a Liverpool Lime Street. Efallai y bydd y Gweinidog hefyd yn gwybod bod Cynghrair Mersi a’r Dyfrdwy a fforwm economaidd gogledd Cymru wedi sicrhau bod gwelliannau i Halton Curve yn cael eu cynnwys o fewn cynllun trafnidiaeth y gogledd ac mewn cynlluniau tebyg ar draws y ffin yn Lloegr. Byddai’r trenau hyn, pe bai Halton Curve yn cael ei ailsefydlu, yn caniatáu mynediad uniongyrchol rhwng yr orsaf Liverpool South Parkway newydd a Maes Awyr Lerpwl John Lennon—gan wella’r sefyllfa drafnidiaeth yn y gogledd yn sylweddol.

Also, transport services between north Wales and Manchester are currently worse than they perhaps were five years ago due to a slow and infrequent service, which is compounded by lengthy delays at Manchester Piccadilly. I make these points because I would hope that the Minister, when he is developing his national transport plan and, more importantly, when he puts his mind to the development of a new Wales and borders franchise, will ensure that such issues, which are clearly not allowed for in the current franchise arrangements, are looked at.

Yn ogystal, mae gwasanaethau trafnidiaeth rhwng gogledd Cymru a Manceinion ar hyn o bryd yn waeth nag oeddent o bosibl pum mlynedd yn ôl o ganlyniad i wasanaeth araf ac anaml, sy’n cael ei ddwysau gan oedi hir ym Manceinion Piccadilly. Yr wyf yn gwneud y pwyntiau hyn oherwydd byddwn yn gobeithio y bydd y Gweinidog, pan fydd yn datblygu ei gynllun trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol ac, yn bwysicach, pan fydd yn ystyried datblygu masnachfraint newydd Cymru a’r gororau, yn sicrhau bod materion o’r fath, sy’n amlwg heb eu cynnwys yn nhrefniadau’r masnachfraint presennol, yn cael sylw.

I also agreed with a lot of what Vaughan Gething said about the fact that, because of the current situation with regard to the amount of money available, there are difficult decisions to be made regarding our priorities. The reality is that we must decide what our priorities are. I am not one of those who believe that Government has a responsibility to subsidise the private sector when it is in difficulties, and yet, when the private sector is amassing significant profits, there is no payback the other way. If an airport asset has been sold off to the private sector, then the private sector itself must assume some responsibility, especially when it is a company the size of that which owns of Cardiff Airport and, it would appear, has taken very few steps to actively pursue the development of the airport.

Cytunaf hefyd gyda llawer o’r hyn a ddywedodd Vaughan Gething am y ffaith bod, oherwydd y sefyllfa gyfredol o ran faint o arian sydd ar gael, penderfyniadau anodd i’w gwneud ynghylch ein blaenoriaethau. Y gwir yw bod yn rhaid i ni benderfynu beth yw ein blaenoriaethau. Nid wyf i’n un o’r rhai sy’n credu bod gan y Llywodraeth gyfrifoldeb i roi cymhorthdal ​​i’r sector preifat pan fydd mewn trafferthion, ac eto, pan fydd y sector preifat yn casglu elw sylweddol, nid oes ad-dalu i fod y ffordd arall. Os yw ased maes awyr wedi cael ei werthu i’r sector preifat, yna mae’n rhaid i’r sector preifat ei hun gymryd rhywfaint o gyfrifoldeb, yn enwedig pan ei fod yn gwmni o faint yr un sy’n berchen ar Faes Awyr Caerdydd ac, yn ôl y sôn, sydd wedi cymryd ychydig iawn o gamau rhagweithiol er mwyn datblygu’r maes awyr.

In the current climate, we must have major improvements in the rail infrastructure in Wales. The reality is that, as far as connectivity between north and south Wales is concerned, the level of investment that would be needed in improvements to the road network would be too much for the current budget to stand. That is why I support the moves that Eluned Parrott has made to impress upon the UK Government the need for electrification of the railway line to Swansea. I also support the cross-party consensus that is developing with regard to the case for electrification of the Valleys railway lines.

Yn yr hinsawdd bresennol, mae’n rhaid i ni gael gwelliannau mawr yn y seilwaith rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru. Y gwir yw, cyn belled ag y mae cysylltedd rhwng gogledd a de Cymru yn y cwestiwn, y byddai lefel y buddsoddiad a fyddai ei angen mewn gwelliannau i’r rhwydwaith yn ormod i’r gyllideb bresennol. Dyna pam yr wyf yn cefnogi’r camau mae Eluned Parrott wedi’u cymryd i greu argraff ar Lywodraeth y DU o ran yr angen am drydaneiddio’r rheilffordd i Abertawe. Yr wyf hefyd yn cefnogi’r consensws trawsbleidiol sydd yn datblygu o ran yr achos dros drydaneiddio rheilffyrdd y Cymoedd.

Antoinette Sandbach: I am very glad to say that Aled Roberts has highlighted many of the concerns that I wished to highlight in relation to north Wales. Byron Davies and I met representatives for Arriva Trains Wales to discuss transport links and issues relating to the Halton Curve and the connectivity to Liverpool and Manchester airports. It is not realistic to expect north Wales to link with Cardiff as its regional airport. By both car and train, it takes around 4.5 hours to travel between north and south Wales, if you take it from the mid point of north Wales. I would also like to highlight that it is not just an issue of investment in transport infrastructure, but of dealing with improvements in a co-ordinated way. The A55 experienced considerable problems over 2009-10, and there were road works on the A55 for 314 days out of 352. Very often, that was at peak times of use, in holiday periods such as half-term and the Easter holidays, and it created an appalling impression of north Wales for holidaymakers and, indeed, for businesses. The increased cost to north Wales of its major transport route, the A55, having road works over that period was of huge concern to local businesses and others who are required to use that link, as highlighted previously, because of the very poor train connections from north Wales to Liverpool and Manchester. That is of huge concern to people in my region. I will keep my contribution short and finish there, because I know that others wish to speak.

Antoinette Sandbach: Yr wyf yn falch iawn o ddweud bod Aled Roberts wedi tynnu sylw at nifer o’r pryderon yr oeddwn yn dymuno tynnu sylw atynt mewn perthynas â’r gogledd. Cyfarfu Byron Davies a minnau â chynrychiolwyr o Trenau Arriva Cymru i drafod cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth a materion yn ymwneud â Halton Curve a’r cysylltedd i feysydd awyr Lerpwl a Manceinion. Nid yw’n realistig disgwyl i’r gogledd gysylltu â Chaerdydd fel ei faes awyr rhanbarthol. Mewn car a thrên, mae’n cymryd tua 4.5 awr i deithio rhwng y gogledd a’r de, os  cychwynnwch o ganol gogledd Cymru. Hoffwn hefyd bwysleisio nad dim ond mater o fuddsoddi yn y seilwaith trafnidiaeth ydyw, ond mater o ddelio â gwelliannau yn gydlynol. Cafwyd problemau sylweddol ar yr A55 dros 2009-10, ac yr oedd gwaith ffordd ar yr A55 am 314 diwrnod allan o 352. Yn aml iawn, yr oedd hynny yn yr adegau brig, yn ystod cyfnodau o wyliau fel hanner tymor a gwyliau’r Pasg, ac fe greodd argraff ofnadwy o’r gogledd ym meddyliau pobl ar wyliau ac, yn wir, pobl busnes. Yr oedd y gost uwch i’r gogledd o gael gwaith ffordd ar ei brif lwybr trafnidiaeth, yr A55, dros y cyfnod hwnnw yn bryder enfawr i fusnesau lleol ac eraill sy’n gorfod defnyddio’r cyswllt, fel yr amlygwyd yn flaenorol, oherwydd y cysylltiadau trên gwael iawn o’r gogledd i Lerpwl a Manceinion. Mae hynny’n peri pryder mawr i bobl yn fy rhanbarth i. Cadwaf fy nghyfraniad yn gryno a gorffen ar hynny, gan y gwn fod pobl eraill yn dymuno siarad.

Julie James: I am very pleased to be called to speak in this debate. I have a few brief points. I was involved in the forced sale of Cardiff Airport when I was a young lawyer back in the early 1990s. The rationale for selling it to the private sector was that it was inappropriate for the public sector to make such a stonking profit, as Mick Antoniw has said, and that that would be more appropriately done in the private sector. So, there is some dramatic irony in the fact that today we have a private sector company apparently completely unable to make the sort of profits that were being made in the public sector in the early 1990s. Obviously, the economics involved could be debated at great length.

Julie James: Yr wyf yn falch iawn o gael fy ngalw i siarad yn y ddadl hon. Mae gennyf ychydig o bwyntiau byr. Cymerais ran yng ngwerthiant gorfodol Maes Awyr Caerdydd pan oeddwn yn gyw gyfreithiwr yn ôl yn y 1990au cynnar. Y rhesymeg dros ei werthu i’r sector preifat oedd ei fod yn anaddas i’r sector cyhoeddus wneud y fath elw  anferthol, fel y dywedodd Mick Antoniw, ac y byddai’n fwy priodol gwneud hynny yn y sector preifat. Felly, mae rhywfaint o eironi dramatig yn y ffaith bod gennym heddiw gwmni sector preifat yn ôl pob golwg yn gwbl analluog i wneud y math o elw a wnaeth y sector cyhoeddus yn y 1990au cynnar. Yn amlwg, gellid trafod yr economeg dan sylw yn fanwl.

I would also like to make a point about Bristol Airport. It also has very difficult transport links. The airport is a very long way outside the city. Anyone who has been through Barrow Gurney at 3 a.m. can testify how difficult it is to get to. It enjoys no greater accessibility than Cardiff Airport, but it has a much more vigorous marketing strategy and an enormously good strategy for attracting budget holiday airlines—not business travel, but mostly budget holiday airlines. It has done a great job. I, for one, have used it, and I am sure that everyone else in the Chamber has as well.

Hoffwn hefyd wneud pwynt ynghylch maes awyr Bryste. Mae ganddo gysylltiadau trafnidiaeth anodd iawn hefyd. Mae’r maes awyr yn ffordd bell iawn y tu allan i’r ddinas. Gall unrhyw un sydd wedi bod drwy Barrow Gurney am 3 a.m. dystio pa mor anodd yw hi i’w gyrraedd. Nid yw’n fwy hygyrch na Maes Awyr Caerdydd, ond mae ganddo strategaeth farchnata llawer mwy egnïol a strategaeth hynod dda ar gyfer denu cwmnïau hedfan sy’n cynnig teithiau rhad—nid teithiau busnes, ond yn bennaf cwmnïau hedfan sy’n cynnig teithiau gwyliau rhad. Mae wedi gwneud gwaith gwych. Yr wyf fi wedi ei ddefnyddio, ac yr wyf yn siŵr bod pawb arall yn y Siambr wedi hefyd.

However, I have had many conversations over the past few months with major employers in south Wales, in the Swansea area and elsewhere—really big multinational players that also work in China, America, Germany and so on—and almost all of them come in through an international London airport. What they are looking for is swift transport into Wales. That is not to take away from the strength for a country of having an airport. It is an important national asset. However, in terms of business links, we are looking for swift transportation from the major international hub for the UK, which is London, whether you like it or not. Therefore, what we actually need are swift road and rail links into Wales. I know that I sometimes sound like a broken record about rail electrification, but there are real business needs for it. The other day, our committee went to talk to Narberth traders about a town regeneration project, and people down there were extremely anxious to have the electrification of the line all the way to Swansea, because, otherwise, the major employers will slowly withdraw towards Bristol and beyond. We do not want Wales to stop at Cardiff. We wish very much to be open for business throughout the whole of Wales.

Fodd bynnag, yr wyf wedi cael llawer o sgyrsiau dros yr ychydig fisoedd diwethaf gyda chyflogwyr mawr yn ne Cymru, yn ardal Abertawe ac mewn mannau eraill—chwaraewyr rhyngwladol gwirioneddol fawr sydd hefyd yn gweithio yn Tsieina, America, yr Almaen ac yn y blaen—ac mae bron pob un ohonynt yn cyrraedd trwy faes awyr rhyngwladol yn Llundain. Maent yn chwilio am drafnidiaeth gyflym i mewn i Gymru. Nid yw hynny i ddibrisio cryfder gwlad sydd â maes awyr. Mae’n ased cenedlaethol pwysig. Fodd bynnag, o ran cysylltiadau busnes, yr ydym yn chwilio am drafnidiaeth gyflym oddi wrth ganolfan ryngwladol o bwys y DU, sef Llundain, p’un a ydych yn ei hoffi neu beidio. Felly, yr hyn sydd wir angen arnom yw cysylltiadau ffyrdd a rheilffyrdd cyflym i mewn i Gymru. Yr wyf yn gwybod fy mod weithiau’n swnio fel tôn gron ar drydaneiddio rheilffyrdd, ond mae anghenion busnes go iawn ar ei gyfer. Yn ddiweddar, aeth ein pwyllgor i siarad â masnachwyr Arberth am brosiect adfywio’r dref, ac yr oedd y bobl draw yno yn hynod awyddus bod y llinell yr holl ffordd i Abertawe yn cael ei drydaneiddio, oherwydd, fel arall, bydd y cyflogwyr mawr yn araf dynnu’n ôl tuag at Fryste a thu hwnt. Nid ydym ni am i Gymru stopio yng Nghaerdydd. Dymunwn yn fawr iawn bod pob cwr o Gymru yn agored ar gyfer busnes.

In north Wales, we have a similar issue, but with Manchester Airport and so on.

Yng ngogledd Cymru, mae gennym broblem debyg, ond gyda Maes Awyr Manceinion ac yn y blaen.

David Rees: Do you agree that the UK Government’s decision to electrify the line to Heathrow and not to electrify it to Swansea expresses its view that we are not worth it and that it is leaving us behind? Do you agree that it should invest in the line to Swansea to help west Wales?

David Rees: A ydych yn cytuno bod penderfyniad Llywodraeth y DU i drydaneiddio’r llinell i Heathrow ac nid i’w drydaneiddio i Abertawe yn datgan ei barn nad ydym yn werth chweil a’i bod yn ein gadael ar ôl? A ydych yn cytuno y dylai fuddsoddi yn y llinell i Abertawe er mwyn helpu gorllewin Cymru?

Julie James: I agree with that very much, and that is the point that I am making.

Julie James: Yr wyf yn cytuno â hynny yn fawr iawn, a dyna’r pwynt yr wyf yn ei wneud.

Antoinette Sandbach: Will you take an intervention?

Antoinette Sandbach: A wnewch chi gymryd ymyriad?

Julie James: Okay, very quickly please.

Julie James: Iawn, un cyflym iawn os gwelwch yn dda.

Antoinette Sandbach: Do you welcome the fact that the UK Government has announced the electrification of the line coming into Wales, which the Labour Government failed to do in the many years that it was in power?

Antoinette Sandbach: A ydych chi’n croesawu’r ffaith bod Llywodraeth y DU wedi cyhoeddi y trydaneiddir y llinell sy’n dod i Gymru, a fethodd y Llywodraeth Lafur ei wneud yn y blynyddoedd maith yr oedd mewn grym?

Julie James: I do not wish to go into the arguments about that. I welcome the electrification of the line into Wales, but I do not welcome the fact that it stops at Cardiff. Let us leave it at that.

Julie James: Nid wyf yn dymuno mynd ar ôl y dadleuon ynghylch hynny. Yr wyf yn croesawu trydaneiddio’r rheilffordd i mewn i Gymru, ond nid wyf yn croesawu’r ffaith ei fod yn dod i ben yng Nghaerdydd. Gadewch i ni ei adael ar hynny.

I would like to go on to discuss two other things. I very much welcome the Government’s approach to sustainable transport and the links between road and rail. I also very much welcome an integrated strategy for buses, which is very important to our rural communities and to people around our urban areas. I would also like to introduce something else into this debate. I spent many of my teenage years in Canada, where a large number of entrepreneurs run very small float plane businesses, because you can reach all of the cities in Canada via the sea or some other stretch of water. That could be done in Wales. The Welsh Government should encourage some entrepreneurial approaches to that kind of small-scale transport in our rural areas.

Hoffwn fynd ymlaen i drafod dau beth arall. Croesawaf agwedd y Llywodraeth at drafnidiaeth gynaliadwy a’r cysylltiadau rhwng y ffyrdd a’r rheilffyrdd yn fawr. Yr wyf hefyd yn croesawu strategaeth integredig ar gyfer bysiau yn fawr, sydd yn bwysig iawn i’n cymunedau gwledig ac i bobl o gwmpas ein hardaloedd trefol. Hoffwn hefyd gyflwyno rhywbeth arall i’r ddadl hon. Treuliais lawer o’m harddegau yng Nghanada, lle mae nifer fawr o entrepreneuriaid yn rhedeg busnesau awyren arnofio fach iawn, oherwydd gallwch gyrraedd pob dinas yng Nghanada o’r môr neu ryw ddarn arall o ddŵr. Gallai hynny gael ei wneud yng Nghymru. Dylai Llywodraeth Cymru annog rhai dulliau entrepreneuraidd at y math hwnnw o drafnidiaeth ar raddfa fach yn ein hardaloedd gwledig.

The Minister for Local Government and Communities (Carl Sargeant): I start by thanking William Graham for tabling this interesting debate today. It is somewhat ironic that the Conservative party is seeking major investment in transport, when the party planned a massive 30 per cent cut to the transport and economy budget when it produced its draft proposals. However, let us move on from that interesting point.

Y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau (Carl Sargeant): Dechreuaf drwy ddiolch i William Graham am gyflwyno’r ddadl ddiddorol hon heddiw. Mae braidd yn eironig bod y blaid Geidwadol yn ceisio cael buddsoddiad mawr mewn trafnidiaeth, pan gynlluniodd y blaid doriad o 30 y cant enfawr i’r gyllideb drafnidiaeth a’r economi pan luniodd ei gynigion drafft. Fodd bynnag, gadewch i ni symud ymlaen o’r pwynt difyr hwnnw.

I ask Members to oppose the motion unamended and one of the eight amendments. The Welsh Government is committed to delivering a transport infrastructure that can deliver economic growth across Wales. Infrastructure is critical to the economy, and transport enables that. An effective transport system is a prerequisite for sustained economic growth. It is vital to our daily lives. We recognise that infrastructure has many facets. I urge Members to support amendments 1 and 2 in the name of Jane Hutt, as Cardiff Airport has a key role to play in improving international connectivity. As the airport acts as an international gateway to our capital city and to Wales as a whole, it is strategically important to the Welsh economy. We are working very closely with the owners of Cardiff Airport and the private sector to identify ways to improve services at the airport. For clarification, Abertis owns the airport in Cardiff, not TBI, as some Members have said.

Gofynnaf i’r Aelodau wrthwynebu’r cynnig heb ei ddiwygio ac un o’r wyth gwelliant. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ymrwymo i gyflwyno seilwaith trafnidiaeth a all gyflawni twf economaidd ledled Cymru. Mae seilwaith yn hanfodol i’r economi, ac mae trafnidiaeth yn galluogi hynny. Mae system drafnidiaeth effeithiol yn rhagofyniad ar gyfer twf economaidd parhaus. Mae’n hanfodol i’n bywydau bob dydd. Yr ydym yn cydnabod bod sawl agwedd i seilwaith. Anogaf yr Aelodau i gefnogi gwelliannau 1 a 2 yn enw Jane Hutt, am fod gan Faes Awyr Caerdydd rôl allweddol i’w chwarae wrth wella cysylltedd rhyngwladol. Gan fod y maes awyr yn gweithredu fel porth rhyngwladol i’n prifddinas ac i Gymru yn gyffredinol, mae’n strategol bwysig i economi Cymru. Yr ydym yn gweithio’n agos iawn gyda pherchnogion Maes Awyr Caerdydd a’r sector preifat i nodi ffyrdd o wella gwasanaethau yn y maes awyr. Er mwyn eglurder, Abertis sydd berchen ar y maes awyr yng Nghaerdydd, nid TBI, fel y dywedodd rhai Aelodau.

In recognition of its status as a key international gateway, I also urge Members to support amendment 3 in the name of Peter Black. In principle, the Welsh Government is in favour of the devolution of the air passenger duty, as it would be a useful lever to promote economic development and it could be devolved without major risk to the tax revenue from passenger duty across the UK. That is why Members should support amendment 4 in the name of Jocelyn Davies.

Er mwyn cydnabod ei statws fel porth rhyngwladol allweddol, yr wyf hefyd yn annog yr Aelodau i gefnogi gwelliant 3 yn enw Peter Black. Mewn egwyddor, mae Llywodraeth Cymru o blaid datganoli’r doll teithwyr awyr, gan y byddai’n ysgogiad defnyddiol i hybu datblygiad economaidd a gellid ei datganoli heb risg sylweddol i’r refeniw treth o’r doll teithwyr ar draws y DU. Dyna pam y dylai Aelodau gefnogi gwelliant 4 yn enw Jocelyn Davies.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Thank you for going on to that point. I welcome that statement very much. However, to go back to the ownership of Cardiff Airport, it is owned by TBI. The company was taken over by Abertis, so it is true to say that both Abertis and TBI own Cardiff Airport. It is run under TBI.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Diolch i chi am fynd ymlaen at y pwynt hwnnw. Yr wyf yn croesawu’r datganiad hwnnw yn fawr. Fodd bynnag, i fynd yn ôl at berchnogaeth Maes Awyr Caerdydd, TBI sydd berchen arno. Cafodd y cwmni ei gymryd drosodd gan Abertis, felly mae’n wir dweud bod Abertis a TBI ill dau yn berchen ar Faes Awyr Caerdydd. Mae’n cael ei redeg o dan TBI.

Carl Sargeant: Thank you for your comments. My understanding is that Abertis owns Cardiff Airport.

Carl Sargeant: Diolch am eich sylwadau. Fy nealltwriaeth i yw mai Abertis sydd berchen ar Faes Awyr Caerdydd.

At a time of growing financial constraints, I have to ensure that existing and future transport funding is used effectively and that investment decisions are made according to the Government’s overarching priorities. That is why I am reprioritising the national transport plan and will announce the reprioritised plan in December. I note the comments made by Members across the Chamber. I ask Members to oppose amendment 6 in the name of Peter Black as it could constrain our ability to attract additional routes, both domestic and international, as alluded to by the leader of the opposition.

Ar adeg o gyfyngiadau ariannol cynyddol, mae’n rhaid i mi sicrhau bod cyllid trafnidiaeth presennol ac yn y dyfodol yn cael ei ddefnyddio’n effeithiol a bod penderfyniadau buddsoddi yn cael eu gwneud yn unol â blaenoriaethau trosfwaol y Llywodraeth. Dyna pam yr wyf yn ailflaenoriaethu’r cynllun trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol, a byddaf yn cyhoeddi’r cynllun wedi’i ailflaenoriaethu ym mis Rhagfyr. Nodaf y sylwadau a wnaeth Aelodau ar draws y Siambr. Gofynnaf i’r Aelodau i wrthwynebu gwelliant 6 yn enw Peter Black oherwydd gallai gyfyngu ar ein gallu i ddenu llwybrau ychwanegol, yn y wlad ac yn rhyngwladol, fel y cyfeiriodd arweinydd yr wrthblaid ato.

It is important for everyone to recognise that our direct powers on start-up aid for new services are severely restricted by state aid rules, which is why the focus must remain on the private sector. By reprioritising the national transport plan, I can make the best use of the resources available to me to deliver the transport schemes that will have the biggest impact. We need to look at the benefits of transport infrastructure for businesses in Wales and the people of Wales, and that means looking at ways to address the mobility issues faced by people in accessing employment, and ensuring that there is a range of transport choices for the people of Wales.

Mae’n bwysig i bawb gydnabod bod ein pwerau uniongyrchol ar gymorth cychwyn busnes ar gyfer gwasanaethau newydd wedi cael eu cyfyngu yn ddifrifol gan reolau cymorth gwladol, a dyna pam mae’n rhaid i’r ffocws aros ar y sector preifat. Drwy ailflaenoriaethu’r cynllun trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol, gallaf wneud y defnydd gorau o’r adnoddau sydd ar gael i mi i gyflawni’r cynlluniau trafnidiaeth a fydd yn cael yr effaith fwyaf. Mae angen i ni edrych ar fanteision seilwaith trafnidiaeth i fusnesau yng Nghymru ac i bobl Cymru, ac mae hynny’n golygu edrych ar ffyrdd o fynd i’r afael â’r problemau symudedd mae pobl yn eu hwynebu wrth gael mynediad at gyflogaeth, a sicrhau bod yna ystod o ddewisiadau trafnidiaeth ar gyfer pobl Cymru.

4.00 p.m.

We need to focus on how we in Wales are linked to the markets of Europe, America and beyond. Wales has a critical role in terms of east-west flows in and out of those markets, and we need to ensure that what we do supports improved connectivity along these important corridors. We also have a role in ensuring that we are able to maximise the benefits to Welsh businesses from these important links, and that we are not just watching businesses drive through Wales. We are developing a strategy for the provision of service areas and truck stops as part of the development of route management. On Friday, I will be visiting a new truck stop in north Wales, which has just been opened by the private sector and has not been subsidised in any way. I look forward to that visit.

Mae angen inni ganolbwyntio ar sut yr ydym ni yng Nghymru wedi ein cysylltu â marchnadoedd Ewrop, America a thu hwnt. Mae gan Gymru rôl hanfodol o ran llifoedd o’r dwyrain i’r gorllewin i mewn ac allan o’r marchnadoedd hynny, ac mae angen inni sicrhau bod yr hyn a wnawn yn cefnogi gwell cysylltedd ar hyd y coridorau pwysig hyn. Mae gennym hefyd rôl o ran sicrhau ein bod yn gallu manteisio i’r eithaf ar y manteision i fusnesau Cymru o’r cysylltiadau pwysig hyn, ac nad ydym ond yn gwylio busnesau gyrru trwy Gymru. Yr ydym yn datblygu strategaeth ar gyfer darparu gwasanaethau ac arosfannau ar gyfer lorïau fel rhan o’r gwaith o ddatblygu rheoli llwybrau. Ar ddydd Gwener, byddaf yn ymweld ag arhosfan lorïau newydd yng ngogledd Cymru, sydd newydd gael ei hagor gan y sector preifat a hynny heb unrhyw gymhorthdal. Yr wyf yn edrych ymlaen at yr ymweliad hwnnw.

We need to balance the decisions between major infrastructure projects and smaller interventions, so that we can make a real difference. It is all very well promising bypasses and other major road schemes that may take 10 or 15 years to deliver in practice. However, there is a range of small interventions that we can make immediately to alleviate some of the issues that the Member from Newtown mentioned today.

Mae angen inni gydbwyso’r penderfyniadau rhwng prosiectau seilwaith mawr ac ymyriadau llai, fel y gallwn wneud gwahaniaeth go iawn. Mae’n iawn i addo ffyrdd osgoi mawr a chynlluniau eraill a fydd yn cymryd 10 neu 15 mlynedd i’w cyflawni yn ymarferol. Fodd bynnag, mae ystod o ymyriadau bach y gallwn eu gwneud ar unwaith i liniaru rhai o’r materion a grybwyllwyd heddiw gan yr Aelod o’r Drenewydd.

Significantly, the electrification of the Great Western main line and the Valley lines is vital, in terms of the first steps of creating a new style of transport in Wales. I want Wales to have a modern, efficient railway with effective and easy interchanges with other modes of transport. We are therefore creating a business case, alongside the Department for Transport, for the Great Western main line and the Valley lines. Cardiff is not the end of the line, as we see things. London trains need to continue to Swansea, which is a key centre for economic growth, as noted by Julie James this afternoon. We will continue to push the UK Government to extend its plans for electrification.

Yn arwyddocaol, mae trydaneiddio prif linell y Great Western a rheilffyrdd y Cymoedd yn hanfodol, o ran y camau cyntaf o greu dull newydd o deithio yng Nghymru. Yr wyf eisiau rheilffordd fodern ac effeithlon i Gymru, gyda ffyrdd effeithiol a hawdd o symud i ddulliau eraill o deithio. Felly, yr ydym yn creu achos busnes, ochr yn ochr â’r Adran Drafnidiaeth, ar gyfer prif linell y Great Western a rheilffyrdd y Cymoedd. Nid Caerdydd yw diwedd y llinell, fel yr ydym ni’n gweld pethau. Mae angen i drenau Llundain fynd ymlaen at Abertawe, sy’n ganolfan allweddol ar gyfer twf economaidd, fel y nodwyd gan Julie James y prynhawn yma. Byddwn yn parhau i bwyso ar Lywodraeth y DU i ymestyn ei chynlluniau ar gyfer trydaneiddio.

I recognise the comments made by Aled Roberts, the North Wales regional Member. I also have a vast knowledge of that area. It was very helpful to have a contribution from the Liberal Democrats today on the subject of transport that contained no mention of toilets on trains. [Laughter.] I welcome that. We need to have links to all of our regions, with effective integrated transport systems. In the south-east, we are considering how we can best use the vision of integrated public transport systems put forward by the metro proposal. The electrification of the Valley lines is the starting point of that. In order to continue with the metro system, we need to ensure that the Valley lines are electrified. Therefore, Members should support amendments 2, 4 and 5 in the name of Peter Black to today’s motion.

Yr wyf yn cydnabod y sylwadau a wnaed gan Aled Roberts, Aelod rhanbarthol Gogledd Cymru. Mae gennyf wybodaeth eang am yr ardal honno hefyd. Roedd yn ddefnyddiol iawn cael cyfraniad gan y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol heddiw ar bwnc cludiant nad oedd yn sôn am doiledau ar drenau. [Chwerthin.] Yr wyf yn croesawu hynny. Mae angen inni gael cysylltiadau â phob un o’n rhanbarthau, gyda systemau trafnidiaeth integredig effeithiol. Yn y de-ddwyrain, yr ydym yn ystyried sut y gallwn wneud y defnydd gorau o’r weledigaeth am systemau trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus integredig a gyflwynwyd gan y metro arfaethedig. Mae trydaneiddio rheilffyrdd y Cymoedd yn fan cychwyn i hynny. Er mwyn parhau â’r system metro, mae angen inni sicrhau bod rheilffyrdd y Cymoedd yn cael eu trydaneiddio. Felly, dylai Aelodau gefnogi gwelliannau 2, 4 a 5 i gynnig heddiw yn enw Peter Black.

I thank Members for their interesting contributions today. It is vital that we have a transport system that is fit for the future, which this Government is committed to delivering. I look forward to working with colleagues in the future.

Diolch i’r Aelodau am eu cyfraniadau diddorol heddiw. Mae’n hanfodol bod gennym system drafnidiaeth sy’n addas ar gyfer y dyfodol, fel y mae’r Llywodraeth hon wedi ymrwymo i’w chyflawni. Rwy’n edrych ymlaen at weithio gyda chydweithwyr yn y dyfodol.

Suzy Davies: I thank everyone who has taken part in today’s debate, and I also thank the Minister for his response. It is sometimes useful to have consensus in the Chamber as to the best way to move forward. Once again, however, we have had a variety of opinions on the best way to prioritise in that respect.

Suzy Davies: Diolch i bawb sydd wedi cymryd rhan yn y ddadl heddiw, ac yr wyf hefyd yn diolch i’r Gweinidog am ei ymateb. Weithiau, mae’n ddefnyddiol cael consensws yn y Siambr ynghylch y ffordd orau i symud ymlaen. Unwaith eto, fodd bynnag, yr ydym wedi cael amrywiaeth o safbwyntiau ar y ffordd orau i flaenoriaethu yn hynny o beth.

I will start with something that Julie James and the Minister alluded to, namely smaller interventions. I have noticed today that none of us has said very much about those who fill the gaps in our transport networks—gaps that arise due to patchy infrastructure. I refer, in particular, to community transport organisations, which make a significant difference in terms of access to jobs, as well as addressing social exclusion caused by remoteness from more traditional transport networks. I would like some reassurance from the Minister that such organisations will be central contributors to any regional or national transport strategy that, in turn, informs infrastructure plans. Also, while I am pleased to see that additional funding has been found for free bus travel for pensioners, disabled people and carers, I am struggling to find an equivalent commitment for community transport beyond 2012, which is causing no little concern to providers and to those who rely on community transport. I hope that I am wrong about this.

Dechreuaf gyda rhywbeth y cyfeiriodd Julie James a’r Gweinidog ato, sef ymyriadau llai. Yr wyf wedi sylwi heddiw nad oes neb ohonom wedi dweud llawer am y rheini sy’n llenwi’r bylchau yn ein rhwydweithiau trafnidiaeth—bylchau sy’n codi o ganlyniad i seilwaith anghyson. Cyfeiriaf yn arbennig at sefydliadau cludiant cymunedol, sy’n gwneud gwahaniaeth sylweddol o ran mynediad at swyddi, yn ogystal â mynd i’r afael ag allgáu cymdeithasol sy’n digwydd o ganlyniad i’r ffaith bod rhwydweithiau trafnidiaeth mwy traddodiadol yn bell i ffwrdd. Hoffwn gael sicrwydd gan y Gweinidog y bydd sefydliadau o’r fath yn gyfranwyr canolog i unrhyw strategaeth drafnidiaeth ranbarthol neu genedlaethol sydd, yn ei dro, yn llywio cynlluniau seilwaith. Hefyd, er fy mod yn falch o weld bod cyllid ychwanegol wedi cael ei ganfod ar gyfer teithiau bws am ddim i bensiynwyr, pobl anabl a gofalwyr, rwy’n ei chael hi’n anodd dod o hyd i ymrwymiad cyfatebol ar gyfer trafnidiaeth gymunedol ar ôl 2012, sy’n achosi tipyn o bryder i ddarparwyr a’r rhai sy’n dibynnu ar drafnidiaeth gymunedol. Yr wyf yn gobeithio fy mod yn anghywir am hyn.

Carl Sargeant: I thank the Member for her query, but I would not want to give her false hope. The reprioritisation of the national transport plan is exactly that. It does not include new programmes or the removal of programmes. It is about prioritising current programmes, which are already available for her to see.

Carl Sargeant: Diolch i’r Aelod am ei ymholiad, ond ni fyddwn eisiau rhoi gobaith ffug iddi. Mae ailflaenoriaethu’r cynllun trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol yn gwneud hynny yn union. Nid yw’n cynnwys rhaglenni newydd nac yn cael gwared ar raglenni. Mae’n ymwneud â blaenoriaethu rhaglenni cyfredol, sydd eisoes i’w gweld.

Suzy Davies: I thank the Minister for that answer. As I said, some organisations that provide community transport may have their own queries about those priorities.

Suzy Davies: Diolch i’r Gweinidog am yr ateb hwnnw. Fel y dywedais, efallai fydd gan rai cyrff sy’n darparu cludiant cymunedol gwestiynau am y blaenoriaethau hynny.

Turning to the three main areas that we have discussed in the debate, I will start with Cardiff Airport. There have been quite a lot of contributions on this today. I think that there is some consensus that the access links to Cardiff Airport are not what they should be. I think that the word ‘substandard’ has been used, along with a whole range of other unflattering terms. While it is fair to point out that Bristol is not greatly accessible, there is a significant difference in what the two airports offer. Julie James mentioned that budget airlines have taken advantage of Bristol Airport, but major international airlines, such as BA and Air France, also fly from there. Actually, should we not be using that as an opportunity to focus on Cardiff Airport as being something of a business hub, as well as somewhere that provides services from small budget airlines?

I droi at y tri phrif bwnc a drafodwyd gennym yn y ddadl, yr wyf am ddechrau gyda Maes Awyr Caerdydd. Bu nifer o gyfraniadau am hyn heddiw. Credaf fod rhywfaint o gonsensws nad yw’r cysylltiadau sy’n rhoi mynediad at Faes Awyr Caerdydd fel y dylent fod. Credaf iddynt gael eu disgrifio fel rhai nad ydynt ‘yn ddigon da’, a defnyddiwyd ystod eang o dermau angharedig eraill. Er ei bod yn deg nodi nad yw Bryste yn hygyrch iawn, mae gwahaniaeth sylweddol yn yr hyn y mae’r ddau faes awyr yn ei gynnig. Crybwyllodd Julie James fod cwmnïau hedfan rhad wedi manteisio ar Faes Awyr Bryste, ond mae cwmnïau hedfan rhyngwladol o bwys, megis BA ac Air France, hefyd yn hedfan oddi yno. Mewn gwirionedd, oni ddylem fod yn defnyddio hynny fel cyfle i ffocysu ar Faes Awyr Caerdydd fel canolbwynt busnes, yn ogystal â rhywle sy’n darparu gwasanaethau gan gwmnïau awyrennau bach sy’n cynnig hediadau rhad?

One of the points that I thought was very interesting was the reminder that Cardiff Airport is not the only airport that is important to the Welsh economy. I take the point made by Aled Roberts and Antoinette Sandbach regarding local improvements to rail links making a significant difference to accessibility to the major infrastructure that we already have. I noted that Mohammed Asghar mentioned that there could be threats to the UEFA Champions League links if we do not start looking at what Cardiff Airport can offer, and that is something that the Government should take seriously.

Un o’r pwyntiau a oedd yn ddiddorol iawn yn fy marn i oedd y pwynt a oedd yn ein hatgoffa nad Maes Awyr Caerdydd yw’r unig faes awyr sy’n bwysig i economi Cymru. Derbyniaf y pwynt a wnaed gan Aled Roberts a Antoinette Sandbach ynglŷn â gwelliannau lleol i gysylltiadau rheilffyrdd yn gwneud gwahaniaeth sylweddol i hygyrchedd y seilwaith mawr sydd gennym eisoes.  Nodais fod Mohammed Asghar wedi crybwyll y gallai fod bygythiad i’r cysylltiad â Chynghrair Pencampwyr UEFA os nad ydym yn dechrau edrych ar yr hyn y gall Maes Awyr Caerdydd ei gynnig, ac mae hynny’n rhywbeth y dylai’r Llywodraeth ei gymryd o ddifrif.

Moving swiftly to rail links, I take Vaughan Gething’s point that we have to take difficult decisions. I also appreciate what he says about Cardiff being a very accessible point for much of the population of Wales. However, if we are looking for a balanced economy, we really must not overlook the links that the Minister mentioned for other parts of Wales.

I symud yn gyflym at gysylltiadau rheilffyrdd, yr wyf yn cymryd pwynt Vaughan Gething: mae’n rhaid inni wneud penderfyniadau anodd. Yr wyf hefyd yn gwerthfawrogi’r hyn a ddywed am Gaerdydd yn bwynt hygyrch iawn ar gyfer llawer o boblogaeth Cymru. Fodd bynnag, os ydym yn edrych am economi gytbwys, ni ddylem anghofio’r cysylltiadau a grybwyllwyd gan y Gweinidog ar gyfer rhannau eraill o Gymru.

What we did not talk an awful lot about were strategic road improvements. It perhaps came as no surprise that Russell George mentioned the Newtown bypass. I was slightly surprised that Rhodri Glyn did not mention the Llandeilo bypass. I am going to mention the road improvements to the south of Newbridge in Powys; it is starting to look like the kind of runway that Cardiff Airport would be proud to have. There is a serious question here about maximising the value of every pound spent.

Yr hyn nad oedd rhyw lawer o sôn amdano oedd gwelliannau i ffyrdd strategol. Nid oedd yn syndod efallai fod Russell George wedi crybwyll ffordd osgoi’r Drenewydd. Yr oeddwn yn synnu braidd nad oedd Rhodri Glyn wedi sôn am ffordd osgoi Llandeilo. Rwyf i am sôn am y gwelliannau ffyrdd i’r de o’r Bontnewydd ym Mhowys; mae’n dechrau edrych fel y math o redfa y byddai Maes Awyr Caerdydd yn falch ohoni. Mae cwestiwn difrifol yma am gael y gwerth gorau posibl am bob punt a werir.

In summary, there seems to be agreement that more needs to be done. Part of that is definitely down to the private sector, and I take the point about the airport. However, more than one contributor has mentioned the fact that there has not been significant leadership or direction from the Welsh Government, and delays have been commented on by more than one contributor.

I grynhoi, mae’n ymddangos bod cytundeb am yr angen i wneud mwy. Mae rhan o hynny yn bendant oherwydd y sector preifat, ac yr wyf yn derbyn y pwynt am y maes awyr. Fodd bynnag, mae mwy nag un cyfrannwr wedi sôn am y ffaith na fu arweinyddiaeth na chyfarwyddyd ystyrlon gan Lywodraeth Cymru, ac mae mwy nag un cyfrannwr wedi sôn am yr oedi.

The Presiding Officer: The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? I see that there is an objection. I therefore defer all voting on this item until voting time.

Y Llywydd: Y cynnig yw cytuno ar y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Gwelaf fod gwrthwynebiad. Felly, gohiriaf y pleidleisio ar yr eitem hon tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.

Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Voting deferred until voting time.

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd Dros Dro (Rhodri Glyn Thomas) i’r Gadair am 4.07 p.m.
The Temporary Deputy Presiding Officer (Rhodri Glyn Thomas) took the Chair at 4.07 p.m.

Dadl Plaid Cymru
Plaid Cymru Debate

Nyrsys
Nurses

Y Dirprwy Lywydd Dros Dro: Mae’r Llywydd wedi dethol gwelliannau 1 a 3 yn enw Jane Hutt, gwelliannau 2 a 4 yn enw William Graham a gwelliant 5 yn enw Peter Black.

The Temporary Deputy Presiding Officer: The Presiding Officer has selected amendments 1 and 3 in the name of Jane Hutt, amendments 2 and 4 in the name of William Graham and amendment 5 in the name of Peter Black.

Cynnig NDM4860 Jocelyn Davies

Motion NDM4860 Jocelyn Davies

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Yn cydnabod y rhan hanfodol y mae nyrsys, gan gynnwys nyrsys arbenigol, yn ei chwarae yn y GIG.

1. Acknowledges the essential role that nurses, including specialist nurses, play within the NHS.

2. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i:

2. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) gynnal y cynllun bwrsariaeth nyrsio fel y mae’n cael ei weithredu ar hyn o bryd;

a) maintain the nursing bursary scheme as it currently operates;

b) sicrhau datblygiad proffesiynol parhaus yn y proffesiwn nyrsio; ac

b) ensure continuous professional development in the nursing profession; and

c) datblygu rhwydwaith digonol o nyrsys arbenigol.

c) develop an adequate network of specialist nurses.

Elin Jones: Cynigiaf y cynnig.

Elin Jones: I move the motion.

Y rheswm y mae Plaid Cymru wedi cynnig y ddadl hon yw i ni fel Cynulliad gael cyfle i gydnabod gwerth y nyrsys yn ein gwasanaeth iechyd i’n cymdeithas a chydnabod rôl gynyddol werthfawr nyrsys arbenigol. Hefyd, yr ydym am annog y Llywodraeth i newid ei phenderfyniad i atal y cynllun bwrsariaeth ar gyfer nyrsys, sef penderfyniad sy’n peryglu llif y nyrsys newydd i’r gwasanaeth iechyd yn y dyfodol.

The reason that Plaid Cymru has tabled this debate today is to give us as an Assembly an opportunity to recognise the value of the nurses in our health service to society and to acknowledge the increasingly valuable role of specialist nurses. We are also encouraging the Government to change its decision to halt the bursary scheme for nurses—a decision that is endangering the flow of new nurses into the health service of the future.

Ychydig wythnosau yn ôl, cyhoeddodd y Gweinidog iechyd ei bod yn dod â’r cynllun bwrsariaeth ar gyfer nyrsys i ben yn y flwyddyn academaidd nesaf. Gwnaeth hynny heb unrhyw ymgynghoriad, ffurfiol neu anffurfiol. Nid oedd cyfeiriad ym maniffesto Llafur nac yn y rhaglen llywodraethu y byddai’r cynllun bwrsariaeth hwnnw yn cael ei ddiddymu, ond diddymu yw’r bwriad, a hynny’n syth yn 2012.

A few weeks ago, the Minister for health announced that she was bringing the nurses’ bursary scheme to an end in the next academic year. She did so without any formal or informal consultation. No reference was made in the Labour manifesto or in the programme for government to the fact that this bursary would be abolished. However, abolition is the intention and it will happen imminently in 2012.

Mae’r cynllun yn werth £6,700 y flwyddyn i nyrsys dan hyfforddiant dros dair blynedd eu hyfforddiant, a hynny heb fod ar sail prawf modd. Yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf, cafwyd tua 10 cais am bob lle ar y cwrs, felly mae’r cyflenwad o nyrsys i’r gwasanaeth iechyd wedi bod yn gryf. Yn ei datganiad ym mis Hydref, cyhoeddodd y Gweinidog byddai’r cynllun bwrsariaeth yn dod i ben ar ei ffurf bresennol, ac yn ei lle y bydd grant o £1,000 i bob nyrs dan hyfforddiant a chynnig o fwrsariaeth ar sail prawf modd o £4,400, a’r gallu i fenthyca hyd at £2,300.

The scheme is worth £6,700 a year to trainee nurses for their three years of training, without being means tested. In recent years, around 10 applications have been made for every place on the course, so the supply of nurses to the health service has been strong. In her statement in October, the Minister announced that the bursary scheme in its current form would come to an end, and that in its place a grant of £1,000 would be available to every trainee nurse, along with a means-tested bursary of £4,400, and the option of a loan of up to £2,300.

Efallai bydd rhai yn gofyn y prynhawn yma pam na ddylid rhoi prawf moddion i nyrsys ar gyfer bwrsariaeth, neu pam na ddylai pawb sy’n hyfforddi i fod yn weithiwr iechyd ddod o dan yr un gyfundrefn ariannol, megis therapyddion galwedigaethol neu ffisiotherapyddion. Mae nifer o resymau dilys pam fod y gyfundrefn ariannu ar gyfer nyrsys wedi bod yn wahanol dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Yn gyntaf, mae’r unigolion sy’n hyfforddi i fod yn nyrsys yn dueddol o ddod o gefndiroedd gwahanol i nifer o fyfyrwyr eraill. Maent yn aml yn hŷn gyda theulu a phlant hefyd, ac felly â chostau byw uwch. Mae tueddiad hefyd i’r nyrs dan hyfforddiant fod yr unig un sy’n ennill mewn teulu.

Perhaps some will ask this afternoon why should nurses not be means tested for the bursary, or why everyone who is training to be a health worker, such as occupational therapists or physiotherapists, should not be subject to the same financial system. There are a number of valid reasons why the funding system for nurses has been different in recent years. First, the individuals who are training to be nurses tend to come from different backgrounds to many other students. They are often older, with a family and children and, therefore, they have higher costs of living. There is also a tendency for trainee nurses to be the only breadwinner in a family.

Wrth gyhoeddi’r newid hwn, pwysleisiodd datganiad y Gweinidog i’r wasg y byddai’r gyfundrefn ariannu newydd yn trin pawb sy’n hyfforddi ar gyfer gweithio yn y maes iechyd yn gyfartal. Ar yr wyneb, mae hyn yn swnio’n synhwyrol, ond o edrych ar y gofynion hyfforddi cwbl wahanol i nyrsys, mae’n glir pam yr oedd y gyfundrefn ariannu yn wahanol yn y lle cyntaf. Mae myfyrwyr nyrsio yn gweithio 42 wythnos y flwyddyn, yn hytrach na 30 wythnos y flwyddyn fel myfyrwyr iechyd eraill, megis myfyrwyr sy’n hyfforddi i fod yn therapyddion galwedigaethol. Mae hyn yn golygu, wrth reswm, fod cymaint llai o amser gan fyfyrwyr nyrsio i weithio’n rhan amser er mwyn ennill incwm ychwanegol na myfyrwyr eraill. Mae myfyrwyr nyrsio hefyd yn gwario 50 y cant o’u hamser ym maes ymarfer clinigol, ac felly’n cynnig gwasanaeth i’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Mae’r GIG felly yn elwa’n uniongyrchol o wasanaeth y nyrsys hyn yn ystod eu cyfnod hyfforddi. Yn ychwanegol, yn eu trydedd flwyddyn, mae nyrsys dan hyfforddiant yn gweithio 12 wythnos ar y rhestr ddyletswydd nyrsio ar shifft nyrsio llawn amser o 37.5 awr yr wythnos. 

In announcing this change, the Minister’s press release emphasised that the new funding system would treat all those who are training to work in the health service equally. On the face of it, that sounds sensible, but when you look at the entirely different training requirements for nurses, it is clear why the funding system was different in the first place. Student nurses work 42 weeks a year rather than 30 weeks a year like other health care students, such as students who are training to be occupational therapists. It stands to reason, therefore, that that means that nursing students have much less time than other students to work part time to earn additional income. Student nurses also spend 50 per cent of their time in clinical practice and are, therefore, offering a service to the national health service. The NHS, therefore, benefits directly from the service offered by those nurses during their training period. In addition to that, in their third year, the trainee nurses work 12 weeks on the nursing roster, on a full nursing shift of 37.5 hours per week.

O dynnu’r fwrsariaeth hon, bydd y nesaf peth i ddim o ran cydnabyddiaeth ariannol i nyrsys am y gwaith llawn amser hwn. Byddant i bob pwrpas, fel unigolion, yn talu i weithio’n llawn amser i’r GIG. Nid oes unrhyw fyfyrwyr mewn meysydd iechyd cymharol eraill yn gweithio’n llawn amser fel hyn yn ystod eu cwrs. Dyna pam fod y fwrsariaeth a’r gyfundrefn ariannu bresennol yn wahanol ar gyfer y nyrsys. Nid yw’r hyfforddiant yn cymharu nac yn gyfartal, felly nid oes rheidrwydd i’r gyfundrefn ariannu fod yn gyfartal ychwaith.

By withdrawing this bursary, there will be next to no financial recognition for nurses for that full-time work. They will, to all intents and purposes, as individuals, be paying to work full time for the NHS. No other students in comparable health care fields work full time like this during their courses. That is why the bursary and the current funding system are different for nurses. The training requirements do not compare and are not equal; therefore, there is no necessity for the funding system to be equal either.

Pe bai’r Gweinidog wedi dewis ymgynghori cyn cyhoeddi diddymu’r cynllun, gellid bod wedi ystyried modelau eraill o ariannu. Dylid o leiaf fod wedi ystyried ariannu neu gynnig cyflog i’r nyrsys am y 12 wythnos o waith shifft y maent yn ei ymgymryd yn ystod eu trydedd flwyddyn o hyfforddiant. O beidio â gwneud hynny, mae’n bosibl bod y GIG yn cymryd mantais ddifrifol o’r unigolion hynny, sef eu bod yn gweithio am ddim heb unrhyw sicrwydd o swydd. Heb amheuaeth, mae perygl real y gallai’r rhai sydd â diddordeb mewn nyrsio penderfynu na fedrant hyfforddi ar sail yr anghymhelliad ariannol hwn.

If the Minister had chosen to consult before abolishing the scheme, it would have been possible to consider other funding models. At the very least, consideration should have been given to funding or offering a wage to the nurses for the 12 weeks of shift work that they undertake during their third year of training. In failing to do so, it is possible that the NHS is taking advantage of those individuals, in that they are working for nothing without any job security. Without a doubt, there is a very real danger that those who are interested in nursing might decide that they cannot afford to enter training as a result of this financial disincentive. 

Yn wir, cwrddais â rhai nyrsys dan hyfforddiant y prynhawn yma—mae’n siŵr y bu nifer ohonoch yn nigwyddiad y Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol i lansio ei ymgyrch, Amser i Ofalu. Yr oeddynt yn y sefyllfa fanteisiol o allu cwblhau eu hyfforddiant o dan y gyfundrefn bresennol, ond yr oeddynt yn awyddus i ddweud wrthyf—ac yr wyf yn gobeithio eu bod wedi dweud wrth eraill ohonoch—y byddai eu penderfyniad i fynd mewn i’r byd nyrsio ai peidio wedi bod yn wahanol pe na bai’r cynllun ariannu presennol wedi bod ar gael iddynt, fel na fydd ar gael i nyrsys a fydd yn ystyried hyfforddi o’r flwyddyn nesaf ymlaen.

Indeed, I met some trainee nurses this afternoon—I am sure that many of you attended the Royal College of Nursing event to launch its campaign, Time to Care. They were in the privileged position of being able to complete their training under the current system, but they were keen to tell me—and I hope that they told others of you—that their decision whether to enter the nursing profession would have been different had the current funding scheme not been available to them, as it will not be available to nurses who will be looking to train from next year onwards.

Felly, yn hytrach na chadw at y gyfundrefn bresennol neu ymgynghori i chwilio am syniadau amgen, rhyddhaodd y Gweinidog ddatganiad i’r wasg ym mis Hydref i ddweud bod y gyfundrefn bresennol yn dod i ben, a’i bod yn bwriadu cyflwyno yn union yr un gyfundrefn ariannu i nyrsys a gyhoeddwyd yn Lloegr, gan wneud hynny heb unrhyw drafodaeth gyda’r sector na’r proffesiwn nyrsio.

Therefore, instead of maintaining the current system or consulting to find alternative ideas, the Minister issued a press release in October that said that the current system was coming to an end and that she intended to introduce exactly the same funding arrangement for nurses as had been announced in England, and she did so without any consultation with the sector or the nursing profession.

O edrych ar welliant y Llywodraeth, mae’n amlwg ei bod yn bwriadu cadw at ei bwriad i ddiddymu’r fwrsariaeth hon. Os felly, yr wyf yn ymbil ar y Llywodraeth yn dilyn y ddadl hon i roi ystyriaeth o ddifrif i dalu cyflog am o leiaf y 12 wythnos o waith llawn amser y bydd y nyrsys yn ei roi i’r GIG yn ystod eu blwyddyn olaf o hyfforddiant. Byddai gwrthod talu cyflog ar gyfer y cyfnod hwnnw yn gwbl annerbyniol i’r nyrsys unigol hynny o dan hyfforddiant ac i’r proffesiwn nyrsio. Gobeithiaf y bydd hefyd yn annerbyniol i’r Cynulliad y prynhawn yma.

From looking at the Government’s amendment, it is obvious that it intends to adhere to its intention of abolishing the bursary. If so, I plead with the Government to give serious consideration following this debate to paying a wage for at least the 12 weeks of full-time work that the nurses undertake for the NHS during their final year of training. Refusing to pay a wage for that period would be wholly unacceptable to individual trainee nurses and to the nursing profession. I hope that it will also, this afternoon, be unacceptable to the Assembly.

4.15 p.m.

Gwelliant 1 Jane Hutt

Amendment 1 Jane Hutt

Dileu is-bwynt 2a) a rhoi yn ei le:

Delete sub-point 2a) and replace with:

sicrhau bod egwyddorion cydraddoldeb a thegwch wedi’u dilyn wrth newid y cynllun bwrsariaeth ar gyfer nyrsys.

ensure that in changing the bursary scheme for nurses the principles of equality and equity have been applied.

Gwelliant 3 Jane Hutt

Amendment 3 Jane Hutt

Dileu is-bwynt 2c) a rhoi yn ei le:

Delete sub-point 2c) and replace with:

sicrhau bod y BILlau yn cynllunio ac yn cynnal rhwydwaith digonol o nyrsys arbenigol.

ensure LHBs plan and maintain an adequate network of specialist nurses.

The Minister for Health and Social Services (Lesley Griffiths): I move amendments 1 and 3 in the name of Jane Hutt.

Y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (Lesley Griffiths): Cynigiaf welliannau 1 a 3 yn enw Jane Hutt.

Gwelliant 2 William Graham

Amendment 2 William Graham

Cynnwys is-bwynt 2a) newydd ac ail-rifo’r pwyntiau sy’n dilyn: ‘diffinio a datblygu swyddogaeth Nyrsys Presgripsiynu yng Nghymru’.

Insert as new sub point 2a) and renumber accordingly: ‘define and develop the role of Prescribing Nurses in Wales’.

Gwelliant 4 William Graham

Amendment 4 William Graham

Ychwanegu fel is-bwynt newydd ar ddiwedd pwynt 2:

Add as new sub-point at end of point 2:

‘gwella diogelwch a gwella’r amgylchedd gweithio diogel i nyrsys.’

‘improve security and enhance the safe working environment for nurses.’

William Graham: I move amendments 2 and 4 in my name.

William Graham: Cynigiaf welliannau 2 a 4 yn fy enw i.

Today, we hope that the Welsh Government will take a different approach to the one taken by the First Minister in answering questions on the Royal College of Nursing’s employment survey during Plenary earlier this month. He tried to put up a rather unconvincing smoke screen to cover the real issues facing nurses in Wales, quoting pressures on workload and staffing levels having an impact on patient care.

Heddiw, gobeithiwn y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn cymryd agwedd wahanol i’r un a gymerodd y Prif Weinidog wrth ateb cwestiynau am arolwg cyflogaeth y Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol yn ystod y Cyfarfod Llawn yn gynharach y mis hwn. Ni chawsom ein hargyhoeddi gan y llen fwg y ceisiodd ei chodi i orchuddio’r materion gwirioneddol sy’n wynebu nyrsys yng Nghymru, gan sôn am bwysau ar lwyth gwaith ac effaith lefelau staffio ar ofal cleifion.

I am sure that the Minister for health will acknowledge the facts of that RCN survey, namely that only 37 per cent of nurses agree that the nursing structure provides a secure career, as opposed to 70 per cent in 2009. Some 47 per cent of nurses indicated that there are now fewer nurses in Welsh hospitals in their day-to-day environment. Some 25 per cent of nurses highlighted that there are fewer health support workers on wards in Wales. More tellingly, perhaps, some 72 per cent of nurses reported working additional hours at least once a week, and, of those, 40 per cent worked additional hours several times each week. That overtime is usually unpaid and reveals the reliance upon the good will and professionalism of nursing staff. Perhaps they gain time off in lieu, but many nurses reported that they are unable to find the opportunity to take time off in recompense for working overtime.

Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd y Gweinidog dros iechyd yn cydnabod ffeithiau’r arolwg hwnnw gan y coleg brenhinol, sef mai dim ond 37 y cant o nyrsys sydd yn cytuno bod y strwythur nyrsio yn darparu gyrfa ddiogel, yn hytrach na 70 y cant yn 2009. Nododd tua 47 y cant o nyrsys fod yna bellach lai o nyrsys yn ysbytai Cymru yn eu hamgylchedd o ddydd i ddydd. Tynnodd tua 25 y cant o nyrsys sylw at y lleihad yn nifer y gweithwyr cymorth iechyd ar wardiau yng Nghymru. Yn fwy trawiadol, efallai, adroddodd rhyw 72 y cant o nyrsys eu bod yn gweithio oriau ychwanegol o leiaf unwaith yr wythnos, ac, o’r rheini, yr oedd 40 y cant yn gweithio oriau ychwanegol sawl gwaith bob wythnos. Fel arfer, mae’r goramser hwnnw yn ddi-dâl ac yn dangos y ddibyniaeth ar ewyllys da a phroffesiynoldeb staff nyrsio. Efallai eu bod yn cael amser i ffwrdd yn lle, ond adroddodd llawer o nyrsys eu bod yn methu â dod o hyd i’r cyfle i gymryd amser i ffwrdd fel ad-daliad am weithio goramser.

If nursing staff stopped or reduced their unpaid overtime hours, their work would have to be undertaken by bank staff, costing millions. That is why the Welsh Conservatives will continue to engage with the Royal College of Nursing in Wales following the launch of its Time to Care campaign earlier today. The campaign is aimed directly at the Welsh Government and NHS managers.

Pe bai staff nyrsio yn stopio neu’n lleihau eu horiau goramser di-dâl, byddai’n rhaid i staff banc wneud eu gwaith, gan gostio miliynau. Dyna pam y bydd y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn parhau i ymgysylltu â Choleg Brenhinol Nyrsio Cymru yn dilyn lansio ei ymgyrch Amser i Ofalu yn gynharach heddiw. Mae’r ymgyrch wedi ei hanelu’n uniongyrchol at Lywodraeth Cymru a rheolwyr y GIG.

The Welsh Conservatives welcome this debate and acknowledge Plaid Cymru for bringing it forward today. We acknowledge that nurses need to be innovative and give very special care in addition to their daily tending to patients’ needs. We also acknowledge the support needed to maintain a high standard of nursing in our health service. It is not only vital to ensure the provision of fundamental nursing and patient care, but we also need to allow the widest development of specialist nursing skills to further innovative practices and enhance patient care. We need to embrace innovation.

Mae’r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn croesawu’r ddadl hon ac yn rhoi cydnabyddiaeth i Blaid Cymru am ei chyflwyno heddiw. Yr ydym yn cydnabod bod angen i nyrsys fod yn arloesol a rhoi gofal arbennig iawn yn ychwanegol at ofalu yn ddyddiol am anghenion cleifion. Yr ydym hefyd yn cydnabod y cymorth sydd ei angen i gynnal safon uchel nyrsio yn ein gwasanaeth iechyd. Mae’n hanfodol i sicrhau darpariaeth nyrsio a gofal cleifion sylfaenol, ond mae angen hefyd i ni ganiatáu’r datblygiad ehangaf o sgiliau nyrsio arbenigol er mwyn parhau i arloesi a gwella gofal cleifion. Mae angen i ni gofleidio arloesi.

We are aware that the legislation allowing independent nurse prescribing was introduced in Wales in 2007, seven years after it was introduced in England. The Welsh Conservatives amendment 2 focuses on prescribing nurses because they illustrate the continuous professional development that this motion proposes. Research shows that the majority of nurses who prescribe have at least 10 years’ nursing experience before they begin their prescribing course, and that they are required to demonstrate that they have the necessary assessment and diagnostic skills.

Yr ydym yn ymwybodol y cyflwynwyd y ddeddfwriaeth yn caniatáu rhagnodi annibynnol gan nyrsys yng Nghymru yn 2007, saith mlynedd ar ôl iddi gael ei chyflwyno yn Lloegr. Mae gwelliant 2 y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn canolbwyntio ar nyrsys rhagnodi gan eu bod yn dangos y datblygiad proffesiynol parhaus a gynigir gan y cynnig hwn. Dengys ymchwil fod gan y rhan fwyaf o nyrsys sy’n rhagnodi o leiaf 10 mlynedd o brofiad nyrsio cyn iddynt ddechrau ar eu cwrs rhagnodi, a’i bod yn ofynnol iddynt ddangos bod ganddynt y sgiliau asesu a diagnostig angenrheidiol.

There are approximately 400 prescribing nurses in Wales. They provide enhanced patient services in surgeries and hospitals and reduce the dependence on GPs and senior medical staff. They have a beneficial impact on reducing waiting times at accident and emergency departments and reducing pressures on hospital admissions. It is recognised that having experienced and qualified nurse prescribers allows the more effective development of nurse-run clinics, and domiciliary visits in particular. We note that the Welsh Government currently provides places for nurses on prescribing courses, but we share the concern that those places are not strategically targeted at a specific field of practice and that there has been little uptake from the primary care sector. I hope that the Minister will address those issues.

Mae tua 400 o nyrsys rhagnodi yng Nghymru sydd yn darparu gwasanaethau gwell i gleifion mewn meddygfeydd ac ysbytai, gan leihau’r ddibyniaeth ar feddygon teulu ac uwch staff meddygol. Maent yn cael effaith fuddiol ar leihau amseroedd aros mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys a lleihau’r pwysau ar dderbyniadau i ysbytai. Cydnabyddir bod cael nyrsys rhagnodi profiadol a chymwys yn caniatáu i glinigau wedi’u rhedeg gan nyrsys ac ymweliadau cartref yn arbennig ddatblygu yn fwy effeithiol. Nodwn fod Llywodraeth Cymru ar hyn o bryd yn darparu lleoedd i nyrsys ar gyrsiau rhagnodi, ond yr ydym yn rhannu’r pryder nad yw’r lleoedd hynny yn cael eu targedu’n strategol at faes penodol ac mai isel fu’r galw am y lleoedd hynny o’r sector gofal sylfaenol. Gobeithiaf y bydd y Gweinidog yn mynd i’r afael â’r materion hynny.

People recognise Macmillan nurses as the visible face of specialist nursing. They are out and about in our communities. We do not meet the wider specialist nursing profession until we or a family member or friend develops an illness or loses an ability. For many years, we have been aware of the specialist nursing care that is required for the needs of those who have suffered disabilities through accidents or have been wounded in conflicts, as well as the specialist care necessary for mental health patients. As medical treatments advance, innovative specialist nursing care and support skills are needed to provide enhanced patient care. Patients with multiple sclerosis, diabetes, Parkinson’s disease, or those with cardiovascular or lung disease, can have their quality of life greatly enhanced through specialist nursing care.

Mae pobl yn adnabod nyrsys Macmillan fel y rheini sy’n ymgorffori nyrsio arbenigol. Maent yn mynd o gwmpas ein cymunedau. Nid ydym yn cwrdd â’r proffesiwn nyrsio arbenigol ehangach nes i ni neu aelod o’r teulu neu ffrind ddatblygu salwch neu golli gallu. Am nifer o flynyddoedd, yr ydym wedi bod yn ymwybodol o’r gofal nyrsio arbenigol sydd ei angen i gwrdd ag anghenion pobl sydd wedi dioddef anableddau trwy ddamweiniau neu sydd wedi cael eu hanafu mewn gwrthdaro, yn ogystal â’r gofal arbenigol angenrheidiol ar gyfer cleifion iechyd meddwl. Wrth i driniaethau meddygol symud ymlaen, mae angen gofal a sgiliau cymorth nyrsio arbenigol arloesol i ddarparu gofal gwell i gleifion. Gall cleifion sydd â sglerosis ymledol, diabetes, clefyd Parkinson neu glefyd cardiofasgwlaidd neu’r ysgyfaint gael ansawdd bywyd llawer gwell trwy ofal nyrsio arbenigol.

For many years, all parties have voiced their concerns at the increased level of abuse and violence directed at our NHS staff, particularly those in our accident and emergency departments. Each year, there are an average of 7,500 reported incidents of such attacks on hospital staff and paramedics, including attacks with weapons and sexual assault. It is necessary to ensure that we improve security and secure a safe working environment for nurses and all NHS staff. It is abhorrent that people who seek to gain the widest base of medical skills to assist those who require medical attention should be subjected to abuse and violence by the people, or the families and friends of the people, whom they are trying to care for. The Assembly should be questioning, as the RCN does, why some health boards are still referring so few cases to the police. In 2010-11, there were only 126 successful prosecutions, with some leading to custodial sentences. That is why the Welsh Conservatives have highlighted the duty of care that the Assembly must provide those who choose the vocation of caring for others.

Am flynyddoedd lawer, mae pob plaid wedi mynegi eu pryderon am lefel gynyddol cam-drin a thrais a anelir at ein staff yn y GIG, yn enwedig pobl sy’n gweithio yn ein hadrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys. Bob blwyddyn, ar gyfartaledd, mae 7,500 o adroddiadau am ymosodiadau o’r fath ar staff ysbytai a pharafeddygon, gan gynnwys ymosodiadau ag arfau ac ymosodiadau rhywiol. Mae’n angenrheidiol sicrhau ein bod yn gwella diogelwch a darparu amgylchedd gweithio diogel i nyrsys a holl staff y GIG. Mae’n ffiaidd bod pobl sy’n ceisio sgiliau meddygol eang er mwyn cynorthwyo pobl sydd angen sylw meddygol yn dioddef cam-drin a thrais gan y bobl, neu deuluoedd a ffrindiau’r bobl, y maent yn ceisio gofalu amdanynt. Dylai’r Cynulliad fod yn holi, fel y coleg brenhinol, pam mae rhai byrddau iechyd yn dal i gyfeirio cyn lleied o achosion at yr heddlu. Yn 2010-11, bu ond 126 o erlyniadau llwyddiannus, gyda rhai yn arwain at ddedfrydau o garchar. Dyna pam mae’r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig wedi tynnu sylw at y ddyletswydd gofal y mae’n rhaid i’r Cynulliad ei darparu i bobl sy’n dewis yr alwedigaeth o ofalu am eraill.

Gwelliant 5 Peter Black

Amendment 5 Peter Black

Ychwanegu is-bwynt newydd ar ddiwedd pwynt 2:

Add as a new sub-point at the end of point 2:

sicrhau bod pob nyrs yn gallu cael gafael ar yr hyfforddiant angenrheidiol er mwyn gallu bod yn gwbl effeithiol yn eu swyddogaeth.

ensure that every nurse has access to the training they require to enable them to be fully effective in their role.

Kirsty Williams: I move amendment 5 in the name of Peter Black.

Kirsty Williams: Cynigiaf welliant 5 yn enw Peter Black.

I welcome the opportunity this afternoon to debate the essential role that nurses play on a day-to-day basis within the NHS across Wales and in a variety of settings, from people’s homes to those working in primary care, in our communities and community hospitals, and at the sharp end in our district general hospitals and our specialist centres. In recent months, we have perhaps seen a number of reports that have questioned some of the practice that we have seen in our hospitals, but I fundamentally believe that the ethos that led to those individuals entering the nursing profession is one of professionalism and a true desire to care for people within the community.

Yr wyf yn croesawu’r cyfle’r prynhawn yma i drafod y rôl hanfodol y mae nyrsys yn ei chwarae o ddydd i ddydd yn y GIG ar draws Cymru ac mewn amrywiaeth o leoliadau, o gartrefi pobl i’r rhai sy’n gweithio ym maes gofal sylfaenol, yn ein cymunedau ac ysbytai cymunedol, ac yn y rheng flaen yn ein hysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth a’n canolfannau arbenigol. Yn y misoedd diwethaf, efallai inni weld nifer o adroddiadau sydd wedi cwestiynu rhai o’r arferion a welsom yn ein hysbytai, ond credaf yn y bôn fod yr ethos a arweiniodd yr unigolion hynny i ymuno â’r proffesiwn nyrsio yn un o broffesiynoldeb ac awydd gwirioneddol i ofalu am bobl yn y gymuned.

To be able to do that, nurses need to work in a supportive environment and to have access to continuing professional development that allows them to make the most of their skills and to keep up-to-date with the latest clinical practice; hence the need for the Liberal Democrat amendment, amendment 5, today. The evidence that has come forward via the Royal College of Nursing employment Wales survey for this year suggests that we are not giving Welsh nurses the opportunity to pursue continuing professional development. Undoubtedly, that will have an impact on their ability do their job and on patient care. The results of that survey suggest that Welsh nurses are less likely to have received CPD than nurses in any other part of the UK. Only 45 per cent of Welsh nurses reported in that survey receiving infection control training, compared with a figure of nearly 75 per cent across the rest of the UK. Appraisals and personal development plan rates are significantly lower than in the rest of the UK, with little or no progress in ensuring a comprehensive appraisal and personal development programme since 2009. I am sure that we would all agree that it should be a priority for local health boards to ensure that nurses are able to take advantage of CPD opportunities without feeling that they are leaving colleagues who remain in the workplace under additional pressure and with an additional workload. They need the opportunity to improve and enhance their skills.

Er mwyn gwneud hynny, mae angen i nyrsys weithio mewn amgylchedd cefnogol a chael mynediad at ddatblygiad proffesiynol parhaus sy’n eu galluogi i wneud y gorau o’u sgiliau ac i gadw i fyny â’r arfer clinigol diweddaraf. Felly mae angen gwelliant y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, gwelliant 5, heddiw. Mae’r dystiolaeth sydd wedi dod atom drwy arolwg cyflogaeth Coleg Brenhinol Nyrsio Cymru ar gyfer y flwyddyn hon yn awgrymu nad ydym yn rhoi’r cyfle i nyrsys Cymru i ymgymryd â datblygiad proffesiynol parhaus. Heb os, bydd hynny yn cael effaith ar eu gallu i wneud eu gwaith ac ar ofal cleifion. Mae canlyniadau’r arolwg yn awgrymu bod nyrsys yng Nghymru yn llai tebygol o fod wedi ymgymryd â DPP na nyrsys mewn unrhyw ran arall o’r DU. Dim ond 45 y cant o nyrsys yng Nghymru adroddodd yn yr arolwg iddynt gael hyfforddiant rheoli heintiau, o’i gymharu â ffigur o bron 75 y cant ar draws gweddill y DU. Mae cyfraddau gwerthusiadau a chynlluniau datblygu personol yn sylweddol is nag yng ngweddill y DU, gydag ychydig neu ddim cynnydd o ran sicrhau rhaglen arfarnu a datblygiad personol cynhwysfawr ers 2009. Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddem ni i gyd yn cytuno y dylai hi fod yn flaenoriaeth i fyrddau iechyd lleol sicrhau y gall nyrsys fanteisio ar gyfleoedd DPP heb deimlo eu bod yn gadael cydweithwyr yn y gweithle o dan bwysau ychwanegol ac â llwyth gwaith ychwanegol. Mae nyrsys angen y cyfle i wella ac i ddatblygu eu sgiliau.

One way in which many nurses wish to undertake CPD is to follow training to obtain specialist nurse or consultant nurse status. They can hone their skills in one particular aspect, condition or disease. It would be a matter of regret for us all that, despite the fact that, in 2000, we announced the proposal to create 50 consultant nurse posts, we have never achieved that number. Only 28 of those consultant nurses were ever appointed, and that number has fallen by a further seven nurses over the last two years. Therefore, our most senior nurses have not materialised in the way that was promised by previous administrations. We all know from the various meetings that Assembly Members attend once Plenary has closed that there is a less than consistent approach to the employment of specialist nurses across the UK, whether they are dealing with Parkinson’s, multiple sclerosis, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, respiratory conditions or heart conditions. It is a hit-and-miss process as to whether you will have access to specialist nurses in the area where you live.

Un ffordd y mae llawer o nyrsys yn dymuno ymgymryd â DPP yw drwy ddilyn hyfforddiant i gael statws nyrs arbenigol neu nyrs ymgynghorol. Maent yn gallu hogi eu sgiliau mewn un agwedd, cyflwr neu afiechyd penodol. Er gwaethaf y ffaith, yn 2000, y cyhoeddwyd y bwriad i greu 50 o swyddi nyrsys ymgynghorol, byddai’n destun gofid i ni i gyd nad ydym byth wedi cyflawni’r rhif hwnnw. Dim ond 28 o’r nyrsys ymgynghorol hynny a gafodd eu penodi, ac mae’r nifer wedi gostwng o saith nyrs pellach dros y ddwy flynedd ddiwethaf. Felly, nid yw ein nyrsys uchaf wedi dod yn realiti yn y ffordd yr addawodd gweinyddiaethau blaenorol. Yr ydym i gyd yn gwybod oddi wrth y gwahanol gyfarfodydd y mae Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn eu mynychu wedi Cyfarfodydd Llawn bod dull llai na chyson o gyflogi nyrsys arbenigol ar draws y DU, os ydynt yn delio â chlefyd Parkinson, sglerosis ymledol, clefyd rhwystrol cronig yr ysgyfaint, cyflyrau anadlol neu anhwylder y galon. Nid oes dim dal y bydd gennych chi fynediad at nyrsys arbenigol yn yr ardal lle’r ydych yn byw.

The ability to invest in specialist nurses would enable us to save money on inappropriate admissions to accident and emergency departments and district general hospitals, if people could manage their conditions in the community. In the closing seconds, I make a special plea for the training of nurses who specialise in learning disabilities. That is very much a shrinking part of the profession, but it is not an unimportant aspect of nursing. I would be grateful to hear from the Minister what steps she intends to take to ensure that we have adequate supplies of nurses who are trained specifically in the area of learning disability.

Byddai’r gallu i fuddsoddi mewn nyrsys arbenigol yn ein galluogi i arbed arian ar dderbyniadau amhriodol i adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys ac ysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth, pe gallai pobl reoli eu hanhwylderau yn y gymuned. Wrth gloi, yr wyf am wneud ple arbennig dros hyfforddi nyrsys sy’n arbenigo mewn anableddau dysgu. Mae honno’n rhan o’r proffesiwn sy’n crebachu, ond nid yw’n yn agwedd ddibwys ar nyrsio. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar i glywed gan y Gweinidog pa gamau y mae hi’n bwriadu eu cymryd i sicrhau bod gennym gyflenwadau digonol o nyrsys sydd wedi’u hyfforddi’n benodol ym maes anabledd dysgu.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd Dros Dro: Cyn imi alw’r Aelodau eraill sy’n dymuno cyfrannu at y ddadl hon, rhaid imi bwyso arnoch i fod yn wyliadwrus o’r amser neu ni fyddaf yn gallu galw pob un sydd wedi gofyn i gyfrannu. Os gallech arbed munud yma ac acw, bydd hynny yn caniatáu imi alw pawb.

The Temporary Deputy Presiding Officer: Before I call other Members who have indicated that they wish to speak, I urge you to be mindful of the time, or I will not be able to call all Members. If you could shave a minute off here and there, it will allow me to call everyone.

Llyr Huws Gruffydd: Nid yw’n bosibl meddwl am bwysigrwydd a gwerth y gwasanaeth iechyd heb werthfawrogi a chydnabod cyfraniad allweddol nyrsys i’r gwasanaeth hwnnw. Yr wyf am dreulio’r munudau nesaf yn sôn yn benodol am nyrsys arbenigol a phwysigrwydd cynnal rhwydwaith digonol ohonynt ledled Cymru. Mae eu rôl wedi dod yn fwyfwy pwysig dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf wrth iddynt ymrwymo eu hunain i feysydd nyrsio penodol a gofalu am gleifion sy’n dioddef o gyflyrau a chlefydau hir dymor, megis canser, y clefyd siwgr, MS, clefyd Parkinson, dementia ac yn y blaen. Maent yn dod â llu o fanteision i’r gwasanaethau y maent yn eu cynnig—gofal hir dymor, gan gynnig cyngor ac addysg i gleifion sy’n dioddef o’r cyflyrau hyn. Mae’r wybodaeth y maent yn ei darparu yn helpu i sicrhau bod symptomau yn cael eu lleihau. Mae hynny’n golygu bod llai o angen, yn aml iawn, i gleifion fynd i’r ysbyty. Maent yn glinigol effeithiol a hefyd yn gost effeithiol. Mae’r rhwydwaith o nyrsys arbenigol yn rhan hanfodol o unrhyw wasanaeth iechyd ataliol.

Llyr Huws Gruffydd: It is not possible to think of the importance and value of the health service without recognising the value and the crucial contribution of nurses to that service. I want to spend the next few minutes speaking about specialist nurses specifically, and the importance of maintaining an adequate network of specialist nurses across Wales. Their role has become more and more important over the past few years, as they commit themselves to specific areas of nursing and care for patients suffering from chronic conditions such as cancer, diabetes, MS, Parkinson’s disease, dementia and so on. They bring a whole host of benefits to the service that they provide—long-term care, providing advice and education for patients suffering these conditions. The information that they provide helps to ensure that symptoms are managed. That means that there is less need for patients to travel to hospital. They are clinically effective and also cost effective. The network of specialist nurses is a crucial part of any preventative health service.

Mae gofid bod byrddau iechyd yn torri yn ôl ar ddefnyddio nyrsys arbenigol oherwydd pwysau ariannol. Mae arolwg gan y Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol o nyrsys arbenigol yng Nghymru yn dangos bod dwy ran o dair ohonynt yn gweld toriadau yn eu harbenigedd a bod gofyn i bron i draean gyflenwi dros dro ar ran nyrsys nad ydynt yn nyrsys arbenigol. Gellir dadlau bod toriadau yn economi ffals gan fod y nyrsys arbenigol yn arbed arian i’r gwasanaeth iechyd. Nid oes rhaid edrych yn bellach na nyrsys arbenigol MS  i sylweddoli pa mor hanfodol yw eu gwasanaeth—yn amrywio o reoli atglafychu, rhoi cyngor ar gyffuriau a thriniaethau, cyfeirio pobl at ffisiotherapi a chwnsela, ac yn y blaen. Yn wyneb bygythiad i’r nyrsys arbenigol hyn, mae MS Society Cymru wedi lansio ymgyrch i amddiffyn y swyddi allweddol hyn. Mae’n galonogol iawn nodi bod 28 o Aelodau’r Cynulliad wedi arwyddo’r datganiad o farn yn cefnogi’r ymgyrch honno. Mae adroddiad y gymdeithas MS ar brofiadau pobl sy’n defnyddio gwasanaethau nyrsys arbenigol MS yn dangos bod 60 y cant o gleifion yn dweud bod eu nyrs MS wastad yn eu helpu os ydynt am wybodaeth am wahanol driniaethau neu feddyginiaethau. Mae dros 70 y cant yn dweud mai eu nyrs oedd eu pwynt cyswllt cyntaf bob tro yr oedd ganddynt unrhyw gwestiynau am eu cyflwr. Yr oedd 80 y cant yn dweud bod eu nyrs MS wedi darparu cefnogaeth i’w teulu ac i’w gofalwyr, yn ogystal ag iddynt hwy.

There is concern that health boards are cutting back on the use of specialist nurses because of financial pressures. A survey by the Royal College of Nursing of specialist nurses in Wales shows that some two thirds have experienced cuts in their areas of expertise and that almost a third are asked to cover for nurses who are not specialists. One could argue that cuts are a false economy, because these specialist nurses save money for the health service. One only needs to look at MS specialist nurses to realise how crucial their service is—ranging from managing relapses and providing advice on drugs and treatments to directing people to the appropriate counselling and physiotherapy and so on. In the face of the threat to these specialist nurses, MS Society Cymru has launched a campaign to safeguard these crucial posts. It is very encouraging to note that 28 Assembly Members have signed the statement of opinion supporting that campaign. The MS Society’s report on the experiences of people using services provided by specialist MS nurses demonstrates that 60 per cent of patients say that their MS nurse always help them if they want any information on the various treatments or drugs available. Over 70 per cent say that their MS nurse is their first point of contact every time that they have questions regarding their condition, and 80 per cent say that their MS nurse had provided support for their family and carers as well as for them.

Byddai torri yn ôl ar nyrsys MS yn cael effaith negyddol ar wasanaethau MS eraill, gan eu bod yn chwarae rôl allweddol o ran hyfforddi eraill o fewn y gwasanaeth iechyd am y cyflwr penodol hwn. Mae’u sgiliau a’u gwybodaeth yn cael ei werthfawrogi’n fawr, er enghraifft gan niwrolegwyr ymgynghorol, sy’n cysylltu â hwy’n gyson am wybodaeth. Mae’r Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol yn amcangyfrif y gellid arbed bron i £10 miliwn bob blwyddyn yng Nghymru wrth i nyrsys arbenigol reoli atglafychiadau MS yn y cartref, er mwyn arbed cleifion rhag gorfod mynd i ysbytai. Mae angen sicrwydd gan Lywodraeth Cymru na fydd nifer y nyrsys MS arbenigol—a nyrsys arbenigol yn ehangach—yn cael ei dorri wrth i’r byrddau iechyd chwilio am arbedion.

Cutting back on MS nurses would have a negative impact on other MS services, because they play a crucial role in training others within the health service on this condition. Their skills and information are highly valued, for example by consultant neurologists, who regularly contact them for information. The RCN estimates that almost £10 million could be saved in Wales per annum as specialist nurses control MS relapses in the home rather than patients having to travel to hospital. We need an assurance from the Welsh Government that the number of MS specialist nurses—and specialist nurses more widely—will not be cut as health boards look for savings.

4.30 p.m.

Byddai hynny’n wrthweithiol ac yn tanseilio’r arbedion y byddent yn eu creu. Y dewis arall yng nghyd-destun MS fyddai cyflogi niwrolegwyr ymgynghorol am ddwywaith y gost. Cyfeiriais yn gynharach at y datganiad o farn yn cydnabod ac yn cefnogi rôl allweddol nyrsys arbenigol, ac yr wyf yn hyderu’n fawr y bydd y Siambr hon yn datgan yr un gwerthfawrogiad a chefnogaeth i nyrsys drwy gefnogi’r cynnig hwn.

That would be counterproductive and undermine the savings that they would generate. The alternative in the context of MS would be to employ consultant neurologists at twice the cost. Earlier, I mentioned the statement of opinion that acknowledges and supports the crucial role of specialist nurses, and I am confident that this Chamber will express the same appreciation and support for nurses by supporting this motion.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd Dros Dro (Rhodri Glyn Thomas): Diolch, Llyr; gobeithiaf y bydd pawb yn dilyn dy arweiniad di.

The Temporary Deputy Presiding Officer (Rhodri Glyn Thomas): Thank you, Llyr; I hope that everyone will follow your lead.

Rebecca Evans: As the new chair of the cross-party group on nursing, I was particularly pleased that our first meeting of this Assembly term looked at the work of learning disability nurses and the issues that they face. I welcome and echo Kirsty Williams’ comments in this regard earlier in the debate. Learning disability nurses are not specialist nurses as such, but are certainly nurses working in a specialised field. They work across a range of settings in community teams and health liaison roles in supporting primary and secondary healthcare, and also in community-based residential care. They work in specialist teams in children’s services, in challenging behaviour and in in-patient services. They play a central role in the lives of people with learning disabilities in Wales, particularly those with complex care needs. They undertake comprehensive assessments of need, develop individual plans of care, enable access to wider healthcare, and work collaboratively with other professionals and agencies. In addition, they provide education to others working in health and social care settings, and provide advice, education and support to people with learning disabilities, their families and carers. The specialism is low-profile, but very important.

Rebecca Evans: Fel cadeirydd newydd y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar nyrsio, roeddwn yn arbennig o falch bod ein cyfarfod cyntaf yn nhymor y Cynulliad hwn wedi edrych ar waith nyrsys anabledd dysgu a’r materion y maent yn eu hwynebu. Rwy’n croesawu ac adleisio sylwadau cynharach Kirsty Williams yn y ddadl. Nid yw nyrsys anabledd dysgu yn nyrsys arbenigol fel y cyfryw, ond maent yn bendant yn nyrsys sy’n gweithio mewn maes arbenigol. Maent yn gweithio mewn amryw o leoliadau mewn timau cymunedol ac mewn rolau cydgysylltu iechyd o ran cefnogi gofal iechyd cynradd ac uwchradd, a hefyd o ran gofal preswyl yn y gymuned. Maent yn gweithio mewn timau arbenigol o fewn gwasanaethau plant, o ran ymddygiad heriol ac o ran gwasanaethau cleifion  mewnol. Maent yn chwarae rhan ganolog ym mywydau pobl ag anableddau dysgu yng Nghymru, yn enwedig y rhai sydd ag anghenion gofal cymhleth. Maent yn gwneud asesiadau cynhwysfawr o angen, yn datblygu cynlluniau gofal unigol, yn galluogi mynediad i ofal iechyd ehangach, ac yn gweithio ar y cyd â gweithwyr proffesiynol ac asiantaethau eraill. Yn ogystal, maent yn darparu addysg i bobl eraill sy’n gweithio mewn lleoliadau iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, ac yn darparu cyngor, addysg a chymorth i bobl ag anableddau dysgu, eu teuluoedd a’u gofalwyr. Mae gan yr arbenigedd broffil isel, ond mae’n bwysig iawn.

Thanks to improved care at a young age and advances in knowledge and understanding, more people with a learning disability are living to an older age. However, this raises concerns about care, because learning disability nurses are such a small group within the wider family of nursing. May I ask the Minister whether the Welsh Government has plans to commission more places in post-registration learning disability nursing to meet this growing need? In addition, 75 per cent of the learning disability nursing workforce in Wales are over the age of 40, and 25 per cent are over the age of 50. Continued collaboration with colleagues in higher education across Wales is needed to ensure that we have enough learning disability nurses to meet the needs of people with learning disabilities in future. I would welcome ministerial assurances that this strategic collaboration is taking place.

Diolch i well gofal yn y blynyddoedd cynnar a datblygiadau mewn gwybodaeth a dealltwriaeth, mae mwy o bobl sydd ag anabledd dysgu yn byw i oedran hŷn.  Fodd bynnag, mae hyn yn creu pryderon am ofal, gan bod nyrsys anabledd dysgu yn grŵp mor fach yn y teulu nyrsio ehangach. A gaf i ofyn i’r Gweinidog a oes cynlluniau gan Lywodraeth Cymru i gomisiynu rhagor o leoedd nyrsio ôl-gofrestru ym maes anabledd dysgu er mwyn cwrdd â’r angen cynyddol hwn? Yn ogystal, mae 75 y cant o’r gweithlu nyrsio anabledd dysgu yng Nghymru dros 40 oed, ac mae 25 y cant dros 50 oed. Mae angen cydweithio parhaus â chydweithwyr mewn addysg uwch ledled Cymru er mwyn sicrhau bod gennym ddigon o nyrsys anabledd dysgu i gwrdd ag anghenion pobl ag anableddau dysgu yn y dyfodol. Byddwn yn croesawu cael sicrwydd gan Weinidogion bod y cydweithio strategol hwn yn digwydd.

There are particular concerns among nurses that there may be plans to remove lecturer posts in this specialism, which would lead to problems with training and upskilling the workforce to work with people with learning disabilities in the future. I therefore seek the Minister’s assurances that the Government is committed to the education of learning disability nurses and to the development of specialism in this field. Nurses tell me that there is a pressing need to develop a clearer career structure specifically for learning disability nurses in Wales, and I hope that this is something that the Minister will also commit to looking at.

Mae pryderon penodol ymysg nyrsys bod cynlluniau ar y gweill i ddiddymu swyddi darlithwyr yn yr arbenigedd hwn, a fyddai’n arwain at broblemau gyda hyfforddiant a gwella sgiliau’r gweithlu i weithio gyda phobl ag anableddau dysgu yn y dyfodol. Rwyf felly yn gofyn am sicrwydd gan y Gweinidog fod y Llywodraeth wedi ymrwymo i addysg nyrsys anabledd dysgu ac i ddatblygu arbenigedd yn y maes hwn. Mae nyrsys yn dweud wrthyf fod angen dybryd i ddatblygu strwythur gyrfa fwy clir yn benodol ar gyfer nyrsys anabledd dysgu yng Nghymru, a gobeithio bod hynny yn rhywbeth y bydd y Gweinidog hefyd yn ymrwymo i edrych arno.

I conclude by paying tribute to the tremendous work of our nursing staff in Wales, specialist and otherwise, and recognise the crucial role that they play in delivering healthcare in Wales.

Dof i ben drwy roi teyrnged i waith rhagorol ein staff nyrsio yng Nghymru, arbenigol ac fel arall, a chydnabod y rhan bwysig iawn maent yn ei chwarae yn darparu gofal iechyd yng Nghymru.

Lindsay Whittle: I will go like a train here. We are very excited in south-east Wales—11 days ago, Ysbyty Ystrad Fawr, a new hospital, was opened at a cost of £190 million. I am sure that you have been there, Minister. It is a fantastic new building with state-of-the-art facilities, providing access to services that we have never had locally, particularly in the field of mental health. Despite what some local Labour councillors are saying, it is not a cottage hospital—there is not enough thatch in Wales to make a cottage hospital like this. We are really excited. Inside, it has the appearance not of a hospital, but more of a first-class hotel. Each patient has their own room with en suite facilities. While I think that that is great, and I am sure that we will do an analysis in six or 12 months’ time of patients’ opinions, we should also do an analysis of the effects that it has on nurses. I was handed a document called ‘Stories of Inspirational Innovation—Time to Care’; what effect will the new hospital have on the nursing staff as well? It is important that we take their feelings into account. I do not want people to go to hospital, actually; I want them to avoid hospital, which should be the last resort, and specialist nurses can help with that. The Royal College of Nursing makes a strong case for avoiding the threat to the numbers of specialist nurses in Wales. Our main argument for retaining the number of specialist nurses is that they help the NHS to save money. For example, by treating and caring for people in the community where they live, pressure on waiting times and on hospital admissions and, most importantly, re-admissions, is relieved. The RCN made the following recommendations:

Lindsay Whittle: Fe af fel trên yn y fan hyn. Rydym wedi cyffroi’n lân yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru—11 diwrnod yn ôl, agorwyd Ysbyty Ystrad Fawr, ysbyty newydd, am gost o £190 miliwn. Rwy’n siŵr eich bod wedi bod yno, Weinidog. Mae’n adeilad newydd rhagorol gyda chyfleusterau o’r radd flaenaf, gan ddarparu mynediad i wasanaethau na chawsom erioed yn lleol, yn enwedig  ym maes iechyd meddwl. Er gwaethaf yr hyn y mae ambell gynghorydd Llafur lleol yn ei ddweud, nid ysbyty bach mohono—nid oes digon o wellt yng Nghymru i wneud ysbyty bach, cottage hospital, fel hwn. Rydym wedi cyffroi’n lân. Y tu mewn, mae’n edrych fel gwesty o’r radd flaenaf yn hytrach nag ysbyty. Mae ystafell ei hun gan bob claf, gyda chyfleusterau en suite. Er fy mod yn meddwl bod hynny’n ardderchog, ac rwy’n siŵr y byddwch yn gwneud dadansoddiad mewn chwe neu 12 mis o farn y cleifion, dylem hefyd wneud dadansoddiad o’r effeithiau y mae’n eu cael ar nyrsys. Derbyniais ddogfen o’r enw ‘Stories of Inspirational Innovation—Time to Care’; pa effaith fydd yr ysbyty yn ei chael ar y staff nyrsio hefyd? Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn ystyried eu teimladau hwy. Nid wyf eisiau i bobl fynd i’r ysbyty, mewn gwirionedd; rwyf eisiau iddynt osgoi’r ysbyty, gan taw hynny ddylai fod y dewis olaf, a gall nyrsys arbenigol helpu gyda hynny. Mae’r Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol yn cyflwyno dadl gref dros osgoi’r  bygythiad i niferoedd y nyrsys arbenigol yng Nghymru. Ein prif ddadl dros gadw nifer y nyrsys arbenigol yw eu bod yn helpu’r GIG i arbed arian. Er enghraifft, drwy drin a gofalu am bobl yn y gymuned lle maent yn byw, mae pwysau ar amseroedd aros ac ar dderbyniadau i’r ysbyty, ac, yn bwysicaf oll, ail-dderbyniadau i’r ysbyty, yn cael ei liniaru. Mae’r coleg wedi gwneud yr argymhellion canlynol:

‘Every patient with a chronic or long-term condition should have the right to specialist nursing care.’

Dylai pob claf sydd â chyflwr cronig neu gyflwr hirdymor feddu ar yr hawl i gael gofal nyrsio arbenigol.

Specialist nursing posts should be protected through long-term funding, and every health board in Wales should calculate and publish the number and type of specialist nurses needed in their area. Elin Jones has also made reference to that in previous debates.

Dylid diogelu swyddi nyrsio arbenigol drwy ariannu hirdymor, a dylai pob bwrdd iechyd yng Nghymru weithio allan faint a pha fath o nyrsys arbenigol y mae eu hangen yn eu hardaloedd, a chyhoeddi’r wybodaeth honno. Cyfeiriodd Elin Jones hefyd at hynny mewn dadleuon blaenorol.

When I first became a Member of this Assembly, one of the first events that I attended was one held by dementia nurses in south-east Wales. A dementia nurse is recommended to look after 400 patients; the one in south-east Wales has 1,200. A Parkinson’s nurse in Aneurin Bevan Local Health Board only works four days a week. The ratio recommended is one nurse per 300 patients. However, that nurse has 1,100 patients. Nurses who specialise in epilepsy, particularly epilepsy among young people, play a vital role. I have read about an MS nurse in a health board who has saved £65,000 by treating 34 patients at home, rather than in hospital, and freed up half of all secondary neurology appointments, thus saving £16,000. That brings me back to a previous point: let us avoid getting people into hospitals. Yesterday, some of us attended the event held by the National Osteoporosis Society in Wales, which is demanding a fracture liaison and prevention service. Let us help keep older people break free. We do not need older people going into hospitals with broken bones. We need them to avoid hospitals.

Pan ddeuthum yn Aelod o’r Cynulliad hwn gyntaf, un o’r digwyddiadau cyntaf yr euthum iddo oedd un a gynhaliwyd gan nyrsys dementia yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru. Argymhellir bod nyrs dementia yn edrych ar ôl 400 o gleifion; mae 1,200 gan yr un yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru. Dim ond pedwar diwrnod yr wythnos y mae nyrs Parkinson’s Bwrdd Iechyd Lleol Aneurin Bevan yn gweithio. Y gymhareb a argymhellir yw un nyrs fesul 300 o gleifion. Fodd bynnag, mae gan y nyrs honno 1,100 o gleifion. Mae rôl bwysig gan nyrsys sy’n arbenigo mewn epilepsi, yn enwedig epilepsi ymysg pobl ifanc. Darllenais am nyrs MS mewn bwrdd iechyd a arbedodd £65,000 drwy drin 34 o gleifion yn eu cartrefi, yn hytrach nag yn yr ysbyty, a rhyddhau hanner yr holl apwyntiadau niwroleg uwchradd, gan arbed £16,000. Daw hynny â mi yn ôl at bwynt blaenorol: gadewch i ni osgoi derbyn pobl i ysbytai. Ddoe, mynychodd rhai ohonom y digwyddiad a gynhaliwyd gan y Gymdeithas Osteoporosis Genedlaethol yng Nghymru, sy’n galw am wasanaeth cydgysylltu ac atal torri esgyrn. Gadewch i ni geisio sicrhau nad yw pobl hŷn yn torri esgyrn. Nid ydym eisiau i bobl hŷn fynd i ysbytai gydag esgyrn wedi torri. Rydym angen iddynt osgoi ysbytai.

I could go on about specialist nurses. [Interruption.] It is important, Jeff; you may need them one day. One of the key issues that the Welsh Government needs to address is the problem of specialist nurses being taken off their duties to cover for the shortage of nurses in general clinical settings and vice versa. We know that the NHS will not be exempt from having to do more with less, but cutting back on specialist nursing staff will threaten the quality of treatment and the care that thousands of patients in Wales depend upon. If we ensure the prevention of much of these illnesses, then we will have served the people of Wales well. Let us avoid hospitalisation and prevent admissions. That must be our ambition, and, as you may have heard before, ambition is critical.

Fe allwn fynd ymlaen am nyrsys arbenigol. [Torri ar draws.] Mae’n bwysig, Jeff; efallai y byddwch eu hangen rhyw ddydd. Un o’r materion allweddol y mae angen i Lywodraeth Cymru ei ddatrys yw’r broblem a ddaw pan fydd nyrsys arbenigol yn cael eu tynnu o’u dyletswyddau i lenwi mewn pan fo prinder nyrsys mewn lleoliadau clinigol fwy cyffredinol, ac fel arall. Gwyddom na fydd y GIG yn cael ei eithrio rhag gorfod gwneud mwy gyda llai, ond bydd torri ar staff nyrsio arbenigol yn bygwth ansawdd y driniaeth a’r gofal y mae miloedd o gleifion yng Nghymru yn dibynnu arnynt. Os ydym yn sicrhau bod llawer o’r gwaeleddau hyn yn cael eu hatal, yna byddwn wedi gwneud gwaith da dros bobl Cymru. Gadewch i ni osgoi derbyn pobl i’r ysbyty, a cheisio atal hynny. Dyna’r uchelgais a ddylai fod gennym, ac, fel y clywoch o’r blaen, mae uchelgais yn allweddol.

Janet Finch-Saunders: Thank you for allowing me to take part in this important debate. Specialist care across Wales should be a priority for the National Assembly and for the Welsh Government. High-quality, joined-up healthcare, combined with well-trained professionals, particularly in the areas of specialist nursing, occupational therapy and palliative care, would ensure the best possible care and attention for our patients. It would mean practical and manageable workloads for professionals, without risking neglect or unnecessary duplication. Specialist nurses are the human face of our healthcare in Wales. They are the ones who are able to take the time to properly get to know patients and their individual needs, and offer personalised support and reassurance.

Janet Finch-Saunders: Diolch am adael i mi gymryd rhan yn y ddadl bwysig hon heddiw. Dylai gofal arbenigol ar draws Cymru fod yn flaenoriaeth i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ac i Lywodraeth Cymru. Byddai gofal iechyd o safon uchel a chydlynus, ynghyd â gweithwyr proffesiynol wedi eu hyfforddi’n dda, yn enwedig ym meysydd nyrsio arbenigol, therapi galwedigaethol a gofal lliniarol, yn sicrhau’r gofal a’r sylw gorau posibl i’n cleifion. Byddai’n golygu llwyth gwaith ymarferol a rhesymol i weithwyr proffesiynol, heb berygl o esgeulustod neu ddyblygu diangen. Nyrsys arbenigol yw wyneb dynol ein gofal iechyd yng Nghymru. Nhw sy’n gallu treulio amser yn dod i nabod cleifion a’u hanghenion unigol yn iawn, a chynnig cymorth personol a sicrwydd. 

I have spoken in this Chamber in the past about the need to support Parkinson’s nurses and to ensure that specialist nurses do not face unreasonably high caseloads. Today, I would like to focus on the issues faced by other specialist nurses and occupational therapists. Multiple sclerosis nurses, for example, offer invaluable and vital support for people affected by MS. They also play a key role in training other professionals. The MS Society Cymru has reported that neurologists say that the loss of MS nurses would disadvantage not only people with MS, but the healthcare system as a whole. Yet, their posts are currently under threat in Wales.

Rwyf wedi sôn yn y Siambr hon o’r blaen fod angen cefnogi nyrsys Parkinson’s ac i sicrhau nad yw nyrsys arbenigol yn wynebu baich gwaith afresymol o drwm. Heddiw, hoffwn ganolbwyntio ar y materion a wynebir gan nyrsys arbenigol a therapyddion galwedigaethol eraill. Er enghraifft, mae nyrsys sglerosis ymledol yn cynnig cymorth gwerthfawr a phwysig i bobl yr effeithir arnynt gan MS. Maent hefyd yn chwarae rhan allweddol yn hyfforddi gweithwyr proffesiynol eraill. Dywedodd Cymdeithas MS Cymru fod niwrolegwyr yn dweud y byddai colli nyrsys MS nid yn unig yn rhoi pobl sydd ag MS o dan anfantais, ond hefyd yn rhoi’r system gofal iechyd yn ei chyfanrwydd o dan anfantais. Eto, mae eu swyddi o dan fygythiad yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd.

Additionally, specialist occupational therapists rarely get the recognition or the rewards that they deserve for the work that they are trying to do. I have heard from many occupational therapists about the issues that they face in getting employment despite years of training. In a network of specialist nurses, occupational therapists must be included. Co-ordinated working between all relevant professionals in the care of patients is essential and will ensure the best possible care for those who need it. A report by Mind, a mental health charity, has focused on the extent to which the Welsh Labour Government has failed in the areas of emergency mental health care and dementia. It is unacceptable that patients with mental health problems are missing out on treatment when they need it most.

At hynny, yn anaml y mae therapyddion galwedigaethol arbenigol yn cael y gydnabyddiaeth na’r gwobrau y maent yn eu haeddu am y gwaith maent yn ceisio ei wneud. Clywais gan sawl therapydd galwedigaethol am y materion y maent yn eu hwynebu o ran cael gwaith er gwaethaf blynyddoedd o hyfforddiant. Rhaid cynnwys therapyddion galwedigaethol mewn rhwydwaith o nyrsys arbenigol. Mae’n hanfodol bod gweithio cydlynus rhwng yr holl weithwyr proffesiynol perthnasol, a bydd hynny’n sicrhau’r gofal gorau posibl i’r rhai sydd ei angen. Canolbwyntiodd adroddiad gan Mind, elusen iechyd meddwl, ar fethiant Llywodraeth Llafur Cymru ym meysydd gofal iechyd meddwl brys a dementia. Mae’n annerbyniol bod cleifion sydd â phroblemau iechyd meddwl yn methu â chael triniaeth pan fo’i angen arnynt fwyaf.

In 2009, under Welsh Labour, Wales had the worst division of care for dementia sufferers in the UK. Despite this shocking statistic, patients are still suffering neglect and staff are stressed and over-stretched. Action needs to be taken to provide patients with the right kind of specialist care from those who have expertise in dealing with mental health illnesses.

Yn 2009, o dan Lafur Cymru, Cymru oedd  â’r gofal gwaethaf ar gyfer dioddefwyr dementia yn y DU. Er gwaethaf yr ystadegyn brawychus hwn, mae cleifion yn dal i gael eu hesgeuluso ac mae staff o dan straen ac wedi eu gorweithio. Mae angen cymryd camau i roi’r math iawn o ofal arbenigol i gleifion gan y rhai sydd ag arbenigedd mewn delio â salwch iechyd meddwl.  

There is pressure now on specialist nurse posts across Wales, with the former NHS operating framework for 2010-11 calling for a reduction in staff across NHS organisations, and the financial pressures faced by health boards following the Welsh Labour Government’s 6.6 per cent cut in healthcare spending. One way the Betsi Cadwaladr University Local Health Board, the health board for my constituency, is looking to deal with these spending cuts is by cutting avoidable hospital admissions. Specialist nurses can play an important role in this kind of programme by providing individual, tailored care in a patient’s own home. However, we must realise that, in some cases, there is no other option than to treat patients in hospital. Specialist nurses are also in the position to recognise when this is necessary. This is just another example of the invaluable service these people can provide.

Mae pwysau yn awr ar swyddi nyrsys arbenigol ar draws Cymru, gyda fframwaith blaenorol y GIG ar gyfer gweithredu, sef yn 2010-11, yn galw am leihau staff ar draws sefydliadau’r GIG, a’r pwysau ariannol a wynebir gan fyrddau iechyd yn dilyn toriad 6.6 y cant mewn gwariant ar ofal iechyd gan Lywodraeth Lafur Cymru. Un o’r ffyrdd y mae Bwrdd Iechyd Lleol Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr, y bwrdd iechyd ar gyfer fy etholaeth, yn ystyried delio â’r toriadau hyn mewn gwariant yw drwy dorri ar nifer y derbyniadau i’r ysbyty y gellir eu hosgoi. Gall nyrsys arbenigol chwarae rhan bwysig yn y math hon o raglen drwy ddarparu gofal unigol wedi ei deilwra yng nghartref y claf ei hun. Fodd bynnag, mae’n rhaid i ni sylweddoli, mewn rhai achosion, nad oes unrhyw ddewis arall ond trin cleifion yn yr ysbyty. Mae nyrsys arbenigol hefyd mewn sefyllfa i adnabod beth sydd ei angen. Dyma enghraifft arall o’r gwasanaeth gwerthfawr y gall y bobl hyn ei ddarparu.

Not only do we need to be supportive of specialist nurses, but we must recognise the need for joined-up health and social care communications, as we discussed yesterday. More than resources and strategies, we must ensure that mechanisms are in place to ensure that our specialist nurses and occupational therapists work dovetails into a general pattern of care for their patients. This is particularly true of palliative care, where patients may often be treated in their home and in hospital, and where those patients may find it hard to communicate with those caring for them.

Mae angen i ni gefnogi nyrsys arbenigol, ond mae hefyd angen i ni gydnabod bod angen cyfathrebu cydlynus rhwng iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, fel y gwnaethom ei drafod ddoe. Yn fwy nag adnoddau a strategaethau, rhaid i ni sicrhau bod systemau ar waith er mwyn sicrhau bod y gwaith y mae ein nyrsys arbenigol a’n therapyddion galwedigaethol yn ei wneud yn cydfynd er mwyn creu patrwm gofal cyffredinol i’w cleifion. Mae hynny’n arbennig o wir am ofal lliniarol, lle mae cleifion yn gallu cael eu trin gartref ac yn yr ysbyty, a lle gallai’r cleifion hynny ei chael hi’n anodd i gyfathrebu â’r rhai sy’n gofalu amdanynt.

I have concerns around the debate yesterday on the data sharing system. The patient record information system is not compatible with all the systems used by all of our specialist care providers. It can cause unnecessary stress for those using it. As mentioned, delivery of a fully joined-up approach is the only way forward. I welcome these proposals from Plaid Cymru, but we need to think where this plan fits with what we discussed yesterday in the Chamber. It has to be strategic and it has to be joined up.

Mae gennyf bryderon am y ddadl ddoe ar y system rhannu data. Nid yw system gwybodaeth cofnodion cleifion yn gydnaws â phob system a ddefnyddir gan bob un o’n darparwyr gofal arbenigol. Mae’n gallu achosi straen diangen i’r rhai sy’n ei defnyddio. Fel y soniwyd, yr unig ffordd ymlaen yw darparu dull sy’n gwbl gydlynus. Croesawaf y cynigion hyn gan Blaid Cymru, ond mae angen i ni feddwl am sut mae’r cynllun yn cydfynd â’r hyn y gwnaethom ei drafod yn y Siambr ddoe. Rhaid iddo fod yn strategol a rhaid iddo fod yn gydlynus.

Patient care must be the first priority for all work in the health and social care sector. Support for a co-ordinated, joined-up and effective network of specialist nurses would truly show the people of Wales that this Assembly is here for them, to serve them, as a matter of principle, not just procedure.

Rhaid i ofal cleifion fod yn brif flaenoriaeth i bob maes gwaith yn y sector iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol. Byddai cefnogaeth i rwydwaith o nyrsys arbenigol sy’n gydlynus ac yn effeithiol wir yn dangos i bobl Cymru fod y Cynulliad hwn yn bodoli iddynt hwy, i’w gwasanaethu, fel mater o egwyddor, nid gweithdrefn.

Bethan Jenkins: I will speak briefly about mentorship. In an age of cuts, it is the easiest thing in the world for health boards to look at the balance sheets and at the salaries, and then to make savings by getting rid of staff who cost the most, for example, higher level nurses. We have seen this, time and again, in the private and public sectors. The alternative case is that by getting rid of staff that cost the most, public sector organisations end up costing more. This all lies in the value of experience.

Bethan Jenkins: Soniaf yn fyr am fentora. Mewn oes o doriadau, y peth hawsaf yn y byd fyddai i fyrddau iechyd edrych ar y taenlenni ac ar y cyflogau, gan wneud arbedion drwy gael gwared ar staff sy’n costio fwyaf, fel nyrsys lefel uwch. Gwelsom hyn yn y sectorau preifat a chyhoeddus dro ar ôl tro. Y ddadl arall yw bod cael gwared ar y staff sy’n costio fwyaf yn golygu bod sefydliadau sector cyhoeddus yn costio mwy yn y pen draw. Mae gwerth profiad yn sail i hyn i gyd.  

For the first time ever, I am going to use an example from the United States. It has private healthcare, so this is probably the last time you will hear me use this as an example. However, in the US, health businesses believe that highly experienced and well-paid nurses actually save money because they are more skilled at spotting early symptoms and prescribing timely and appropriate treatment. The Royal College of Nursing assures me that American bean counters have done the maths and have found that this is cheaper in the long run. Having someone skilled at that crucial stage actually works, but, miss it, and greater numbers of staff have to become involved to ensure treatment is successful in the long term.

Am y tro cyntaf erioed, rwyf am ddefnyddio enghraifft o’r Unol Daleithiau. Mae gan y wlad honno ofal iechyd preifat, felly mae’n debyg mai hon yw’r tro olaf y clywch fi yn defnyddio hon fel enghraifft. Fodd bynnag, yn yr Unol Daleithiau, mae busnesau iechyd yn digwydd credu bod nyrsys hynod brofiadol sydd ar gyflog da yn arbed arian gan fod ganddynt fwy o allu i nodi symptomau cynnar a rhagnodi triniaeth amserol a phriodol. Mae’r Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol yn fy sicrhau bod cyfrifwyr yn America wedi gwneud y gwaith mathemategol ac wedi canfod bod hyn yn rhatach yn y pen draw. Mae cael rhywun sy’n meddu ar sgiliau ar adeg dyngedfennol yn digwydd gweithio, ond, os caiff ei fethu, mae’n rhaid defnyddio mwy o staff er mwyn sicrhau bod y driniaeth yn llwyddiannus yn y tymor hir.

However, there are hidden costs in getting rid of those who cost the most. These people play crucial roles in providing on-the-job mentorship for young and newly qualified staff, such as the students I spoke to from Swansea this afternoon. We have exemplary medical training available in this country, but just as taking driving lessons teaches you how to pass a test, years on the road teach you how to drive—the same is true in the work that we do. That work is ever so vital where nurses are concerned.

Fodd bynnag, mae costau cudd o ran cael gwared ar y rhai sy’n costio fwyaf. Mae’r bobl hyn yn chwarae rhan allweddol o ran mentora staff ifanc sydd newydd gymhwyso, fel y myfyrwyr o Abertawe y siaradais â hwy y prynhawn yma. Yn y wlad hon, rydym yn cynnig hyfforddiant meddygol rhagorol, ond yn yr un modd ag y mae gwersi gyrru yn eich dysgu sut i basio prawf, mae blynyddoedd ar y lôn yn eich dysgu chi sut i yrru—mae’r un peth yn wir am y gwaith rydym yn ei wneud. Mae’r gwaith hwnnw’n bwysig iawn o ran nyrsys.

4.45 p.m.

Award without experience passed on is a recipe for failure; we must realise that. What happens if that continues? The relatively inexperienced staff will have fewer skills to pass on to the next generation, the next generation will have still fewer skills, and so on. The quality and the reputation of our world-class NHS will suffer. If you remove experience, skill and mentorship from the system in any kind of substantial way, it cannot remain self-sustaining.

Rysáit i fethu yw cymhwyso heb basio profiad ymlaen; rhaid inni sylweddoli hynny. Beth sy’n digwydd os yw hynny’n parhau? Bydd gan y staff cymharol amhrofiadol lai o sgiliau i’w pasio ymlaen i’r genhedlaeth nesaf, bydd llai o sgiliau fyth gan y genhedlaeth nesaf, ac yn y blaen. Bydd ansawdd ac enw da ein GIG, sydd o safon fyd-eang, yn dioddef. Os ydych yn tynnu profiad, sgiliau a mentora o’r system mewn unrhyw ffordd sylweddol, ni all barhau i fod yn hunan-gynhaliol.

All of that sounds very worrying, but I am told again today by the Royal College of Nursing that this is happening. For example, a nurse at a certain level did not detect that a patient had diabetes until the patient had spent a very long time in hospital. We need to get to grips with this so that we can ensure that our NHS is safe.

Mae hyn oll yn swnio’n bryderus iawn, ond dywedwyd wrthyf eto gan y Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol fod hyn yn digwydd. Er enghraifft, ni wnaeth nyrs ar lefel arbennig ganfod fod clefyd siwgr ar glaf hyd nes i’r claf dreulio amser hir iawn yn yr ysbyty. Mae angen i ni fynd i’r afael â hyn fel ein bod yn gallu sicrhau bod ein GIG yn ddiogel.

I want to finish with a point on the nursing bursary scheme, mainly because I met third-year students from Swansea University today who had been speaking to first-year students who said that they would not have been able to afford to study without the current bursary scheme. Obviously, that is anecdotal evidence, but if this is concerning young people, especially those who are interested in a career in nursing, then I urge the Minister to look at it and to take their views on board.

Rwyf eisiau gorffen gyda phwynt ar y cynllun bwrsariaeth nyrsio, yn bennaf oherwydd i mi gwrdd â myfyrwyr trydydd blwyddyn o Brifysgol Abertawe heddiw a fu’n siarad â myfyrwyr blwyddyn gyntaf a ddywedodd na fyddent wedi gallu fforddio astudio heb y cynllun bwrsariaeth nyrsio presennol. Yn amlwg, tystiolaeth anecdotaidd yw hyn, ond os yw hyn yn achosi pryder i bobl ifanc, yn enwedig y rhai sydd â diddordeb mewn gyrfa nyrsio, yna rwy’n annog y Gweinidog i edrych arno ac i ystyried eu sylwadau.  

Mark Isherwood: Specialist nurses are worried about their jobs and futures, and, in particular, about the people to whom they provide care. The Welsh Government’s new community nursing strategy does not acknowledge the important role of condition-specific nurses in managing the holistic healthcare needs of the people living with the condition.

Mark Isherwood: Mae nyrsys arbenigol yn pryderu am eu swyddi a’u dyfodol, ac, yn arbennig, am y bobl maent yn darparu gofal ar eu cyfer. Nid yw strategaeth nyrsio cymunedol newydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn cydnabod pwysigrwydd rôl nyrsys sy’n trin cyflyrau penodol o ran rheoli anghenion gofal iechyd holistig y bobl sy’n byw gyda’r cyflwr. 

Earlier this month, I hosted and spoke at the multiple sclerosis nurse reception in the Assembly, which was referred to earlier. As chairman of the recently re-established cross-party group on neurological conditions, I work closely with many organisations, including Multiple Sclerosis Society Cymru, Parkinson’s UK, and other members of the Wales Neurological Alliance, to raise the concerns of people living with an array of neurological conditions.

Yn gynharach y mis hwn, cynhaliais dderbyniad i nyrsys sglerosis ymledol yn y Cynulliad a siarad ynddo, fel y cyfeiriwyd ato’n gynharach. Fel cadeirydd y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar gyflyrau niwrolegol, a ailsefydlwyd yn ddiweddar, rwy’n gweithio’n agos â nifer o sefydliadau gan gynnwys Cymdeithas Sglerosis Ymledol Cymru, Parkinson’s UK, ac aelodau eraill o Gynghrair Niwrolegol Cymru, i fynegi pryderon pobl sydd â lliaws o gyflyrau niwrolegol.

There is a lot of concern and anxiety around the future of specialist nurses across Wales. The NHS in Wales has to make difficult decisions on budgets for the next few years. All Assembly Members accept that difficult decisions need to be made. However, we cannot afford to make knee-jerk reactions and cut staff who, ultimately, save money and provide an important service. Otherwise, there will still be budget problems, as the existing savings will be lost, and people living with specific conditions will receive poorer treatment.

Mae llawer o gonsýrn a phryder am ddyfodol nyrsys arbenigol ar draws Cymru. Mae’n rhaid i’r GIG yng Nghymru wneud penderfyniadau anodd ar gyllidebau ar gyfer y blynyddoedd nesaf. Mae’n rhaid i bob Aelod Cynulliad dderbyn bod angen gwneud penderfyniadau anodd. Fodd bynnag, ni allwn fforddio gwneud penderfyniadau byrbwyll a thorri staff sydd, yn y pen draw, yn arbed arian ac yn darparu gwasanaeth pwysig. Fel arall, bydd problemau cyllid yn dal i fod, achos fe gollir yr arbedion sy’n bodoli’n barod, a bydd pobl sy’n byw â chyflyrau penodol yn cael triniaeth salach.

At the last meeting of the cross-party group on neurological conditions, we had a presentation by a specialist nurse and a representative of Epilepsy Action explaining just how much money was being saved across Wales by specialist nurses. We also heard arguments from a health board representative in favour of generalist community nurses instead. I know, however, that when a new Parkinson’s specialist nurse was introduced in north Wales in 2003, over £50,000 was saved in the first year by cutting down on admissions to hospital. Examples abound of the savings generated by MS specialist nurses. Specialist nurses provide a vital service to people with specific conditions. We must protect the specialist nurses who are currently employed and appoint more, developing the adequate network that this motion calls for.

Yng nghyfarfod diwethaf y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar gyflyrau niwrolegol, cawsom gyflwyniad gan nyrs arbenigol a chynrychiolydd o Epilepsy Action yn egluro faint yn union o arian roedd nyrsys arbenigol yn ei arbed ar draws Cymru. Clywsom ddadleuon hefyd gan gynrychiolydd bwrdd iechyd o blaid cael nyrsys cymunedol cyffredinol yn eu lle. Gwn, fodd bynnag, y cafodd dros £50,000 ei arbed yn y flwyddyn gyntaf pan gyflwynwyd nyrs arbenigol Parkinson’s yn y gogledd yn 2003, drwy leihau derbyniadau i’r ysbyty. Mae llu o enghreifftiau o’r arbedion a gynhyrchir gan nyrsys arbenigol MS. Mae nyrsys arbenigol yn darparu gwasanaeth allweddol i bobl sydd â chyflyrau penodol. Rhaid i ni ddiogelu’r nyrsys arbenigol a gyflogir ar hyn o bryd a phenodi mwy, gan ddatblygu’r rhwydwaith digonol y mae’r cynnig hwn yn galw amdano.

Those of us who represent north Wales appreciate that, when we attend engagements in both the east and west of north Wales, there is not much of the day left. With that in mind, I was concerned when I was first told that there was only one MS specialist nurse covering the whole of north Wales. With so many people living with the condition, we clearly need more such nurses. I know that Andy Jones has made a tremendous difference to the lives of those whom he has met and supported, but it is clearly difficult for one person to do the work of three over such a vast distance. However, with constrained finances, it is no longer enough to campaign for additional nurses on the basis of patient need alone. Therefore, we call on the Welsh Government and health boards to look at the business case that demonstrates that health boards will be able to save money as a result, and that specialist nurses make financial sense.

Bydd y rhai ohonom sy’n cynrychioli’r gogledd yn gwybod yn dda nad oes llawer o’r diwrnod ar ôl pan fyddwn yn mynd i ddigwyddiadau yn nwyrain a gorllewin y gogledd. Gyda hynny mewn cof, roeddwn yn bryderus pan ddywedwyd wrthyf mai dim ond un nyrs arbenigol MS sy’n cwmpasu’r cyfan o’r gogledd. Gyda chynifer yn byw gyda’r cyflwr, mae’n amlwg bod angen mwy o nyrsys o’r fath arnom. Gwn fod Andy Jones wedi gwneud gwahaniaeth sylweddol i fywydau’r rhai y mae wedi eu cyfarfod a’u cynorthwyo, ond mae’n amlwg yn anodd i un person wneud gwaith tri dros bellter mor fawr. Fodd bynnag, gydag arian yn dynn, nid yw’n ddigon mwyach i ymgyrchu am nyrsys ychwanegol ar sail angen y claf unig. Galwn felly ar Lywodraeth Cymru a byrddau iechyd i edrych ar yr achos busnes sy’n dangos y bydd byrddau iechyd yn gallu arbed arian o ganlyniad, a bod nyrsys arbenigol yn gwneud synnwyr ariannol. 

The Minister for Health and Social Services (Lesley Griffiths): I thank Plaid Cymru for tabling this motion today, because I think that it has given Members the opportunity to acknowledge the tremendous work that nurses do every day and the crucial role that they play in caring for patients as part of the wider clinical team. It is important that we recognise their valuable role.

Y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (Lesley Griffiths): Diolch i Blaid Cymru am gyflwyno’r cynnig hwn heddiw, oherwydd rwy’n meddwl ei fod wedi rhoi cyfle i’r Aelodau gydnabod y gwaith rhagorol maent yn ei wneud bob dydd a’r rôl allweddol maent yn ei chwarae yn gofalu am gleifion fel rhan o’r tîm clinigol ehangach. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn cydnabod eu rôl werthfawr.

I am obviously conscious of the recent survey by the Royal College of Nursing, which William Graham mentioned, that indicated that nurses, like many other public sector workers, are facing a particularly tough time at the moment. I have already said that nursing staff are vital to delivering care to patients, as are other staff who work in the NHS. I take the concerns of all NHS staff very seriously and recognise the importance of listening to what they say. I met with the RCN on Monday this week and offered to work with organisations, including the RCN, to look at doing a more comprehensive survey of NHS staff. I believe that, in an organisation of more than 80,000 people, I should receive feedback in this way. The RCN welcomed that suggestion very much.

Rwy’n amlwg yn ymwybodol o arolwg diweddar y Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol, y soniodd William Graham amdano, a ddangosodd bod nyrsys, fel llawer o weithwyr eraill yn y sector cyhoeddus, yn wynebu amser arbennig o anodd ar hyn o bryd. Dywedais yn barod bod staff nyrsio yn allweddol i ddarparu gofal i gleifion, fel ag yw staff eraill sy’n gweithio yn y GIG. Rwy’n cymryd pryderon pob aelod staff yn y GIG o ddifrif ac yn cydnabod pa mor bwysig yw gwrando ar beth maent yn ei ddweud. Cyfarfûm â’r Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol ddydd Llun wythnos yma a chynigiais weithio gyda phob sefydliad, gan gynnwys y coleg, i edrych ar gynnal arolwg mwy cynhwysfawr o staff y GIG. Mewn sefydliad sydd â dros 80,000 o bobl, credaf y dylwn gael adborth yn y ffordd hwn. Mae’r coleg wedi croesawu’r awgrym hwnnw yn frwd.

One of the commitments that I made in ‘Together for Health’ was to develop a workforce and organisational development framework that will set out our approach to working with staff and their representatives to achieve a sustainable workforce.

Un o’r ymrwymiadau a wneuthum yn ‘Law yn Llaw at Iechyd’ oedd datblygu fframwaith datblygu’r gweithlu a’r sefydliad a fydd yn amlinellu ein dull o weithio gyda staff a’u cynrychiolwyr er mwyn cael gweithlu cynaliadwy.

I will support amendment 2 in the name of William Graham on nurse prescribing. It is important to remember that it is already set out in legislation and that, as such, it is already defined. Non-medical prescribing in various forms has been supported in NHS Wales for a decade. Health boards have been encouraged to commit to the development of non-medical prescribers and to identify service needs for the use of these skills within their areas before agreeing to train their staff.

Byddaf yn cefnogi gwelliant 2 yn enw William Graham ar ragnodi gan nyrsys. Mae’n bwysig cofio ei fod wedi ei amlinellu mewn deddfwriaeth yn barod, ac felly cafodd ei ddiffinio’n barod. Mae GIG Cymru wedi cefnogi rhagnodi mewn sawl ffurf gan bobl nad ydynt yn feddygon ers degawd. Cafodd byrddau iechyd eu hannog i ymrwymo i ddatblygu rhagnodwyr nad ydynt yn feddygon, ac i nodi anghenion gwasanaeth er mwyn defnyddio’r sgiliau hyn yn eu meysydd cyn cytuno i hyfforddi eu staff.

Turning to Elin Jones’s comments about bursaries, bursaries are not being withdrawn. The new student bursary arrangements will ensure that all health professional students who train in Wales are treated fairly and equitably. That is really important. Under the new arrangements that will come into force in September 2012, nurses on the lowest incomes will be able to access £7,719 rather than the £6,701 that they can access now. You said that there was no consultation. However, during 2010, when the changes to the bursary scheme were first proposed, a stakeholder workshop was held. The workshop comprised a range of stakeholders, including representatives of trade unions and higher education institutions together with representation from students, to consider the options. However, I assure Members that, as the scheme progresses, I will keep it under review. I have asked my officials to consider what additional steps may be required to ensure that any unintended consequences of this policy would be highlighted as soon as possible. I hope that that reassures Members.

Gan droi at sylwadau Elin Jones am fwrsariaethau, nid yw bwrsariaethau yn cael eu tynnu nôl. Bydd y trefniadau bwrsariaeth myfyrwyr newydd yn sicrhau y caiff myfyrwyr gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol sy’n hyfforddi yng Nghymru eu trin yn deg a chyfartal. Mae hynny’n bwysig iawn. O dan y trefniadau newydd a ddaw i rym ym mis Medi 2012, bydd nyrsys ar yr incwm isaf yn gallu cael mynediad i £7,719 yn hytrach na’r £6,701 maent yn gallu cael mynediad iddo yn awr. Dywedoch na fu ymgynghoriad. Fodd bynnag, pan gynigiwyd newidiadau i’r cynllun bwrsariaeth yn gyntaf, cynhaliwyd gweithdy rhanddeiliaid. Roedd amryw o randdeiliaid yn y gweithdy, gan gynnwys cynrychiolwyr undebau llafur a sefydliadau addysg uwch, ynghyd â chynrychiolaeth gan fyfyrwyr, i ystyried yr opsiynau. Fodd bynnag, rwy’n sicrhau Aelodau y byddaf yn cadw golwg ar y cynllun wrth iddo fynd rhagddo. Gofynnais i fy swyddogion ystyried pa gamau ychwanegol a allai fod angen i sicrhau bod unrhyw ganlyniadau anfwriadol o’r polisi hwn yn cael eu hamlygu cyn gynted ag y bod modd. Gobeithio y bydd hynny yn tawelu meddwl Aelodau. 

Reciprocal arrangements between Wales and England have also been considered carefully so that Welsh students are not disadvantaged. I certainly do not consider that the policy is having a negative impact on any of the equality groups. There has certainly not been a reduction in the number of applicants for training.

Mae trefniadau cyfatebol rhwng Cymru a Lloegr hefyd wedi cael eu hystyried yn ofalus fel nad yw myfyrwyr o Gymru o dan anfantais. Yn bendant, nid wyf yn meddwl bod y polisi yn cael effaith negyddol ar unrhyw un o’r grwpiau cydraddoldeb. Yn bendant, ni fu lleihad yn nifer y ceisiadau am hyfforddiant.

Turning to Kirsty Williams’s comments on continuing professional development, I absolutely agree that nurses should have access to all the training that they require to perform their roles effectively, so I will be supporting amendment 5 in the name of Peter Black. The requirement for CPD is set out in the Nursing and Midwifery Council code, which describes the standards of conduct, performance and ethics. In addition, in order to re-register, the council has stipulated that staff must undertake CPD activity to maintain their competence. Normally, CPD is arranged locally between the nurse and their employer. It can take many forms—attendance at conferences or on courses or visiting other units to observe new techniques. It should be discussed as part of the nurse’s appraisal and performance development plan.

Gan droi at sylwadau Kirsty Williams am ddatblygiad proffesiynol parhaus, cytunaf yn llwyr y dylai nyrsys gael mynediad at yr holl hyfforddiant sydd ei angen arnynt i wneud eu gwaith yn effeithiol, felly byddaf yn cefnogi gwelliant 5 yn enw Peter Black. Mae’r gofyniad am ddatblygu proffesiynol parhaus wedi ei nodi yng nghod y Cyngor Nyrsio a Bydwreigiaeth, sy’n disgrifio’r safonau ymddygiad, perfformiad a moeseg. Yn ogystal, er mwyn ailgofrestru, mae’r cyngor wedi dweud bod yn rhaid i staff wneud gweithgarwch DPP er mwyn cynnal eu cymhwysedd. Fel arfer, caiff DPP ei drefnu’n lleol rhwng y nyrs a’r cyflogwr. Gall fod ar sawl ffurf—mynychu cynhadledd neu fynd ar gyrsiau neu ymweld ag unedau eraill i arsylwi technegau newydd. Dylai gael ei drafod fel rhan o werthusiad a cynllun datblygu perfformiad y nyrs.

Kirsty Williams: Minister, you say that continuing professional development should be discussed as part of the appraisal and development plan. Fewer nurses in Wales have access to up-to-date and comprehensive plans, and the employers are often the people stopping nurses from getting the CPD that they need. Are you satisfied with the CPD levels that were reported in the RCN work survey?  If you are not, what do you intend to do to improve them for next year?

Kirsty Williams: Weinidog, dywedwch y dylai datblygu proffesiynol parhaus gael ei drafod fel rhan o’r cynllun gwerthuso a datblygu. Mae gan lai o nyrsys yng Nghymru fynediad at gynlluniau wedi eu diweddaru a chynhwysfawr, a chyflogwyr yw’r bobl yn aml sy’n atal nyrsys rhag cael y DPP maent ei angen. A ydych yn fodlon â’r lefelau DPP a gafodd eu hadrodd yn arolwg gwaith y Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol? Os nad ydych, beth ydych chi’n fwriadu ei wneud i’w gwella at flwyddyn nesaf?

Lesley Griffiths: I have asked my chief nursing officer to discuss this with all directors of nursing across Wales. Both Kirsty Williams and Rebecca Evans mentioned learning disability nursing. It is absolutely vital that people with learning disabilities can access the health services that they need. Work is currently under way to develop a four-country approach.

Lesley Griffiths: Gofynnais i fy mhrif swyddog nyrsio drafod hyn gyda phob cyfarwyddwr nyrsio ar draws Cymru. Soniodd Kirsty Williams a Rebecca Evans am nyrsio anabledd dysgu. Mae’n bwysig iawn fod mynediad gan bobl ag anableddau dysgu i’r gwasanaethau iechyd maent eu hangen. Mae gwaith yn mynd rhagddo ar y funud i ddatblygu dull pedair gwlad.

Alun Ffred Jones: In this specific area of training for specialised nursing staff, the only bilingual centre is in Bangor. That is the only centre of excellence for bilingual training in Wales. How important, in your view, is training people through the medium of Welsh and having a bilingual workforce in this specific field?

Alun Ffred Jones: Yn y maes penodol hwn o hyfforddiant ar gyfer staff nyrsio arbenigol, mae’r unig ganolfan ddwyieithog ym Mangor. Dyna yw’r unig ganolfan ragoriaeth ar gyfer hyfforddiant dwyieithog yng Nghymru. Pa mor bwysig, yn eich barn chi, yw hyfforddi pobl drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg a meddu ar weithlu dwyieithog yn y maes penodol hwn?

Lesley Griffiths: It is important right across the NHS. When you have patients whose first language is Welsh—this is particularly true for patients with conditions such as dementia, for example, as well as patients with learning disabilities—it is vital that they can communicate in the language in which they are most comfortable.

Lesley Griffiths: Mae’n bwysig reit ar draws y GIG. Pan fo gennych gleifion Cymraeg iaith gyntaf—mae hyn yn arbennig o wir am gleifion gyda chyflyrau fel dementia, er enghraifft, yn ogystal a chleifion gydag anableddau dysgu—mae’n bwysig eu bod yn gallu cyfathrebu yn yr iaith y maent yn fwyaf cyffyrddus ynddi. 

I will go back to discuss the steps that we are taking in relation to learning disability nursing. I met Mencap last week and discussed this issue. We are looking to ensure that trainee nurses have a wider awareness of this condition through the new nursing curriculum. We aim to ensure that it covers awareness of the needs of people with learning disabilities. For the existing nursing workforce, the chief nursing officer will consider what is needed to raise awareness about this. We will discuss this with directors of nursing across Wales.

Af yn ôl i drafod y camau rydym yn eu cymryd o ran nyrsio anabledd dysgu. Cyfarfûm â Mencap wythnos diwethaf i drafod y pwnc hwn. Rydym yn ceisio sicrhau bod ymwybyddiaeth ehangach gan nyrsys dan hyfforddiant o’r cyflwr hwn drwy’r cwricwlwm nyrsio newydd. Ein bwriad yw sicrhau ei fod yn cwmpasu anghenion pobl sydd ag anableddau dysgu. Ar gyfer y gweithlu nyrsio sy’n bodoli’n barod, bydd y prif swyddog nyrsio yn ystyried beth sydd ei angen i godi ymwybyddiaeth am hyn. Byddwn yn trafod hyn gyda chyfarwyddwr nyrsio ar draws Cymru.

I will also support amendment 4 in the name of William Graham. NHS employers have a duty to protect all staff. That is demonstrated through a wide range of health and safety measures. Nurses are often at the front line in dealing with violent and aggressive patients. Where there is clinically related violence, the NHS is expected to learn from past incidents and, together with robust risk assessment, help staff to prevent further occurrences.

Byddaf hefyd yn cefnogi gwelliant 4 yn enw William Graham. Mae dyletswydd gan gyflogwyr GIG i ddiogelu pob aelod o staff. Caiff hynny ei ddangos drwy amrywiaeth eang o fesurau iechyd a diogelwch. Yn aml, nyrsys sy’n gorfod delio gyntaf a chleifion treisgar ac ymosodol. Lle mae trais sy’n gysylltiedig â thriniaeth glinigol, disgwylir i’r GIG ddysgu o ddigwyddiadau’r gorffennol ac, ynghyd ag asesiadau risg cadarn, helpu staff i atal digwyddiadau pellach.

Many Members spoke about specialist nurses, who have a huge role to play and, as many Members pointed out, can save the NHS money. I am glad that Lindsay Whittle welcomed the new Ysbyty Ystrad Fawr. I understand that it was Plaid Cymru councillors in Caerphilly who, while not purposely trying to block the hospital, refused to allow a new council chamber in Caerphilly, meaning that the hospital would not have gone ahead. Therefore, I welcome your comments regarding that.

Soniodd nifer o Aelodau am nyrsys arbenigol, sydd â rôl sylweddol i’w chwarae, ac sy’n gallu, fel y tynnodd nifer o Aelodau sylw ato, arbed arian i’r GIG. Rwy’n falch fod Lindsay Whittle wedi croesawu yr Ysbyty Ystrad Fawr newydd. Rwy’n deall mai cynghorwyr Plaid Cymru yng Nghaerfilli oedd wedi gwrthod rhoi caniatâd ar gyfer siambr cyngor newydd yng Nghaerffili, ac er nad oeddent yn ceisio rhwystro’r ysbyty yn fwriadol, roedd yn golygu na fyddai’r ysbyty honno wedi mynd yn ei blaen. Felly, croesawaf eich sylwadau am hynny.

There are already more than 1,300 nurses and midwives employed in Wales who are identified as having a clinical specialist title. Some of these posts have existed for over 20 years. I have had a look at the numbers across all of the LHBs and some have been in place for many years. For example, Betsi Cadwaladr University Local Health Board has had a colorectal nurse specialist since 1986, Hywel Dda Local Health Board established a post for a chemotherapy nurse specialist in 1987 and Velindre NHS Trust established a post for a urology nurse specialist in 1989. Therefore, I agree that it is clear that specialist nurses form an integral and important part of our health services and they, along with all nursing staff, have a vital role in delivering our vision for the NHS in Wales.

Mae eisoes mwy na 1,300 o nyrsys a bydwragedd yn cael eu cyflogi yng Nghymru sy’n cael eu dynodi fel rhai sydd â theitl arbenigwr clinigol. Mae rhai o’r swyddi hyn wedi bodoli ers dros 20 mlynedd. Rwyf wedi edrych ar y niferoedd ar draws bob un o’r byrddau iechyd lleol a bu rhai ohonynt yn eu lle ers blynyddoedd lawer. Er enghraifft, mae arbenigwr nyrs y colon a’r rhefr wedi bod gan Fwrdd Iechyd Lleol Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr ers 1986, sefydlodd Bwrdd Iechyd Lleol Hywel Dda swydd ar gyfer arbenigwr nyrs cemotherapi yn 1987 a sefydlodd ymddiriedolaeth GIG Felindre swydd ar gyfer arbenigwr nyrs wroleg yn 1989. Felly, cytunaf fod nyrys arbenigol yn rhan annatod a phwysig o’n gwasanaethau iechyd, a bod ganddynt, ynghyd â’r holl staff nyrsio, rôl allweddol yn gwireddu ein gweledigaeth ar gyfer y GIG yng Nghymru. 

Elin Jones: Diolchaf i bawb sydd wedi cyfrannu yn y ddadl y prynhawn yma. Mae nifer wedi defnyddio eu cyfraniadau i gyfeirio at rôl bwysig ac allweddol nyrsys arbenigol. Mae’n amlwg bod argaeledd nyrs arbenigol i glaf yn rhoi gofal dwys a pherthnasol i’r claf ac yn fodd hefyd i leihau’r tebygrwydd y bydd y claf yn gorfod derbyn ymyrraeth aciwt mewn ysbyty. Bu i Lindsay Whittle wneud y pwynt hwnnw yn ei gyfraniad.

Elin Jones: I thank everyone who has contributed in this debate this afternoon. Several Members used their contributions to refer to the important and key role of specialist nurses. It is clear that the availability of specialist nurses provides patients with intensive and relevant care and is a way to reduce the likelihood of the patient having to receive acute intervention in hospital. Lindsay Whittle made that point in his contribution.

Mae cyflwyno nyrsys arbenigol, felly, yn medru bod yn gost-effeithiol. Cyfeiriodd Mark Isherwood, yn ei rôl fel cadeirydd y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar gyflyrau niwrolegol, at enghreifftiau penodol ynglŷn â sut mae ymyrraeth nyrs arbenigol yn gallu bod yn gost-effeithiol i’r gwasanaeth iechyd. Fodd bynnag, mae perygl y bydd rhai o’r byrddau iechyd yn gweld gwasanaethau nyrsys arbenigol fel gwasanaethau sy’n gymharol hawdd i dorri yn ôl dros y misoedd nesaf wrth edrych ar dorri’r gyllideb. Gwnaeth Bethan Jenkins bwynt tebyg iawn am y rôl o fentora nyrsys, a’r perygl y bydd y gwaith hwnnw’n cael ei gwtogi hefyd mewn cyd-destun o gyfyngiadau ariannol.

The introduction of specialist nurses, therefore, can be cost-effective. Mark Isherwood, in his role as chair of the cross-party group on neurological conditions, referred to specific examples of how the intervention of a specialist nurse can be cost-effective for the health service. However, there is a danger that some health boards will see specialist nursing services as services that are relatively easy to cut back over the next few months in looking at cutting the budget. Bethan Jenkins made a very similar point about the role of mentoring for nurses, and the danger that that work will also be curtailed in the context of a more restricted financial settlement.

5.00 p.m.

Byddwn yn pleidleisio yn erbyn gwelliant 3, a gyflwynwyd gan y Llywodraeth, sy’n rhoi’r cyfrifoldeb dros gynllunio gwasanaeth nyrsys arbenigol i’r byrddau iechyd. Dyna yw prif fyrdwn y gwelliant. Wrth gwrs, mae gan y byrddau iechyd rôl o ran delifro gwasanaeth nyrsys arbenigol. Serch hynny, credaf fod gan y Llywodraeth gyfrifoldeb i sicrhau bod gan gleifion ym mhob ardal o Gymru sy’n dioddef o gyflyrau megis sglerosis ymledol, dementia neu glefyd Parkinson’s yr hawl a’r gallu i gael gwasanaeth nyrs arbenigol. Mae Kirsty Williams a Llyr Huws Gruffydd wedi cyfeirio at sefyllfaoedd lle mae ambell nyrs ar gael i ymdrin ag ambell gyflwr mewn ambell fwrdd iechyd lleol. Felly, mae angen trosolwg a chynllun cenedlaethol yn y maes hwn, er mwyn delifro gwasanaeth iechyd genedlaethol.

We will vote against amendment 3 that was tabled by the Government, which places the responsibility for planning specialist nursing services on the health boards. That is the main thrust of the amendment. Of course, there is a role for the health boards in delivering specialist nursing services, but I believe that the Government has a responsibility to ensure that patients in every part of Wales who are suffering from conditions such as multiple sclerosis, dementia or Parkinson’s disease have the right and the ability to access specialist nursing services. Kirsty Williams and Llyr Huws Gruffydd have referred to situations where a few nurses are available to treat a few conditions in a few local health board areas. Therefore, an overview and a national plan are needed in this field, in order to deliver a national health service.

Cyflwynwyd gwelliannau’r Torïaid gan William Graham, a bwysleisiodd rôl bwysig nyrsys mewn perthynas â phresgripsiynau. Byddwn yn cefnogi’r gwelliant hwnnw a gwelliant y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol.

The Tories’ amendments were tabled by William Graham, who emphasised the important role played by prescribing nurses. We will support that amendment and the Liberal Democrats’ amendment.

Trof yn awr at y sylwadau a wnaed gan y Gweinidog yn ystod ei chyfraniad. Honnodd bod ymgynghori wedi digwydd ynghylch y newid yn y cynllun bwrsariaeth. Serch hynny, nid yw Coleg Brenhinol y Nyrsys yn teimlo bod ymgynghori o unrhyw fath wedi digwydd cyn y gwnaed y penderfyniad hwnnw. Os na chafodd Coleg Brenhinol y Nyrsys ei  gynnwys yn yr ymgynghoriad a’r drafodaeth ar newid y cynllun hwn ar gyfer y dyfodol, pwy arall oedd angen ymgynghori â hwy? Gwnaeth y Gweinidog yr un pwynt a wnaed yn ei datganiad i’r wasg ychydig wythnosau yn ôl, sef ei bod yn bwysig bod y gyfundrefn ariannu’n gyfartal ar gyfer pawb sy’n hyfforddi er mwyn gweithio yn y gwasanaeth iechyd. Derbyniaf y pwynt hwnnw; dywedais yn fy nghyfraniad y byddai hwnnw’n bwynt teg, heblaw bod gwahaniaeth sylweddol o ran y ffordd y mae nyrsys a phobl eraill yn cael eu hyfforddi ar gyfer y gwasanaeth iechyd. Yn gyntaf, mae’n rhaid i nyrsys weithio 42 wythnos y flwyddyn o dan hyfforddiant, yn hytrach na 30 wythnos y flwyddyn o dan hyfforddiant. Yn ogystal, fel yr wyf wedi ei ddweud eisoes, maent yn gweithio’n llawn amser ar restr ddyletswydd yn ystod eu blwyddyn olaf o hyfforddiant. Yr oeddwn yn falch i glywed ymrwymiad y Gweinidog i adolygu’r posibilrwydd o newid y cynllun ariannu hwn yn barhaus wrth ei gyflwyno. Wrth iddi ystyried sut y mae’n bwriadu adolygu’r cynllun newydd hwn, gofynnaf iddi ystyried talu cyflog i’r nyrsys hyn pan fyddant yn gweithio i’r GIG yn ystod eu blwyddyn olaf.

I will now turn to the comments made by the Minister in her contribution. She alleged that consultation had taken place on the changes to the bursary scheme. Despite that, the RCN does not feel that any consultation took place before that decision was made. If the RCN was not included in the consultation and the discussion on the changes to this scheme for the future, who else needed to be consulted? The Minister made the same point that she made in her press release a few weeks ago, which was that it was important for the funding arrangements to be equitable for everyone who is training in order to work in the health service. I accept that point; I said in my contribution that that point would be fair, apart from the fact that there is a significant difference in terms of the way in which nurses and other people are trained for the health service. First, nurses have to work 42 weeks a year in training, instead of 30 weeks a year in training. Also, as I have said, they work full time on a roster during their final year of training. I was pleased to hear the Minister’s commitment to continually review the possibility of amending this funding scheme as it is introduced. When considering how she intends to review this new scheme, I ask her to consider paying a wage to these nurses when they are working for the NHS during their final year.

I gloi’r cyfraniad hwn, hoffwn nodi bod pawb wedi sôn am y parch sydd ganddynt i nyrsys. Mae’r parch hwnnw’n gyffredin i Aelodau o bob plaid sy’n trafod y mater hwn heddiw. Serch hynny, y parch mwyaf y gallwn ddangos i nyrsys heddiw yw gwrthod gwelliant 1 y Llywodraeth a phleidleisio dros ein cynnig ni, a sicrhau bod y gyfundrefn ariannu deg ar gyfer nyrsys yn parhau i’r dyfodol. Yr ydym yn meddwl am nyrsys y dyfodol, a’u gallu i gael hyfforddiant ar gyfer y cyfraniad y byddant yn ei wneud i’r gwasanaeth iechyd yn y dyfodol.

To conclude, I would like to note that everyone mentioned the great respect that they have for nurses. That respect is shared by Members of all parties who are discussing this matter today. Despite that, the greatest respect that we could show nurses today would be by rejecting the Government’s amendment 1 and voting in favour of our motion to ensure that the fair funding system for nurses continues to the future. We are thinking of future nurses and their ability to access training for the contribution that they will make to the health service in the future.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd Dros Dro: Y cwestiwn yw a ddylid cytuno ar y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio. A oes gwrthwynebiad? Gwelaf fod, ac felly gohiriaf bob pleidlais ar yr eitem hon tan y cyfnod pleidleisio. 

The Temporary Deputy Presiding Officer: The proposal is that we agree the motion without amendment. Are there any objections? I see that there are and, therefore, defer all voting on this item until voting time.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd Dros Dro: Mae’r Llywydd wedi dethol gwelliannau 1, 2, 3, 4 a 5 yn enw William Graham a gwelliant 6 yn enw Jocelyn Davies.

The Temporary Deputy Presiding Officer: The Presiding Officer has selected amendments 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 in the name of William Graham and amendment 6 in the name of Jocelyn Davies.

Cynnig NDM4859 Peter Black

Motion NDM4859 Peter Black

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Yn nodi bod:

1. Notes that:

a) oddeutu 26,000 o gartrefi gwag preifat yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd;

a) the number of private empty homes in Wales currently stands at around 26,000;

b) cartrefi gwag yn achosi melltith gymdeithasol ac amgylcheddol ar gymunedau lleol;

b) empty homes cause a social and environmental blight on local communities;

c) mwy o alw am dai cymdeithasol yng Nghymru.

c) there is an increasing demand for social housing within Wales.

2. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i ddatblygu strategaeth cartrefi gwag sy’n cynnwys:

2. Calls on the Welsh Government to develop an empty homes strategy which includes:

a) cymorth i gynghorau a chymdeithasau tai ddefnyddio cartrefi gwag fel tai cymdeithasol;

a) assistance for councils and housing associations to make use of empty homes as social housing;

b) caniatáu i gynghorau gael mwy o hyblygrwydd i osod cyfraddau’r dreth gyngor cosbedigol ar gartrefi sydd wedi bod yn wag yn y tymor hir er mwyn annog perchnogion i’w hailddefnyddio ac i wneud iawn i gymunedau am y felltith maent yn ei hachosi’n lleol;

b) allowing councils greater flexibility to impose punitive council tax rates on long term empty homes so as to encourage owners to bring them back into use and to compensate communities for the blight they impose locally;

c) cyflwyno sylwadau i Lywodraeth y DU i leihau cyfradd TAW ar waith atgyweirio a gwella ar adeiladau sydd eisoes yn bodoli;

c) making representations to the UK government to reduce the rate of VAT on building repairs and improvement work to existing buildings;

d) archwilio’r posibilrwydd o ddarparu benthyciadau rhad i berchnogion i’w hannog i ailddatblygu cartrefi gwag fel tai fforddiadwy i’w gosod ar rent.

d) exploring the possibility of providing low cost loans to owners to encourage the re-development of empty homes as affordable housing for rent.

Peter Black: I move the motion.

Peter Black: Cynigiaf y cynnig.

Long-term empty homes are a blight on many communities around Wales. Houses that lie empty look unsightly, and the damage done to them by weather means that they can deteriorate over time, which means that damp can get into other people’s homes. They are often vandalised, and they can be the target of squatters or those who break into them to have a bit of fun, but it is no fun at all for the neighbours. Their gardens become overgrown, and rodents tend to camp out in them. They are a dreadful blight on many communities, and it needs to be tackled. In my view, the large number of empty homes around Wales requires much more action than is being taken at the moment, although, as I am sure the Minister will point out in reply to the debate, there are some very good examples of good practice in dealing with this issue.

Mae cartrefi sy’n wag am amser hir yn bla ar lawer o gymunedau ledled Cymru. Mae tai gwag yn edrych yn hyll, ac mae’r difrod a wnaed iddynt gan y tywydd yn golygu y gallant ddirywio dros amser, sy’n golygu y gall lleithder ddatblygu yng nghartrefi pobl eraill. Yn aml, maent yn cael eu fandaleiddio, a gallant fod yn darged i sgwatwyr neu i’r rhai sy’n torri i mewn iddynt gael ychydig o hwyl, ond nid yw’n hwyl o gwbl i’r cymdogion. Mae eu gerddi’n tyfu’n wyllt, ac mae cnofilod yn tueddu i wersylla ynddynt. Maent yn falltod erchyll ar lawer o gymunedau, ac mae angen mynd i’r afael â’r mater. Yn fy marn i, mae angen mynd i’r afael lawer mwy â’r nifer fawr o gartrefi gwag o amgylch Cymru nag a wneir ar hyn o bryd, er, fel yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd y Gweinidog yn ei nodi wrth ateb y ddadl, ceir enghreifftiau da iawn o arfer da wrth ddelio gyda’r mater hwn.

I welcome the Minister for Finance’s statement yesterday that £15 million has been allocated to increase the supply, choice and quality of our housing, including investment in the innovative all-Wales recyclable loans fund to bring empty properties back into use and to support housing improvement and regeneration. It is almost as though she had foreknowledge of our motion when it was tabled. Certainly, it is one of the actions that needs to be taken, because there can be many reasons, both good and bad, why a home may be left empty for a length of time, but certainly, the longer it remains empty, the worse the property’s condition becomes and the harder it is to bring it back into use.

Croesawaf ddatganiad y Gweinidog Cyllid ddoe bod £15 miliwn wedi’i ddyrannu i gynyddu’r cyflenwad, dewis ac ansawdd ein tai, gan gynnwys buddsoddiad yn y gronfa arloesol benthyciadau ailgylchadwy Cymru gyfan i ddwyn eiddo gwag yn ôl i ddefnydd ac i gefnogi’r gwaith o wella ac adfywio tai. Mae bron fel pe bai’n gwybod beth oedd ein cynnig pan gafodd ei gyflwyno. Yn sicr, mae’n un o’r camau gweithredu sydd angen eu cymryd, oherwydd gall fod nifer o resymau, da a drwg, pam y gall cartref gael ei adael yn wag am gyfnod o amser, ond yn sicr, po hiraf mae’n parhau i fod yn wag, y gwaethaf yw cyflwr yr eiddo a’r anoddaf yw hi i’w ddwyn yn ôl i ddefnydd.

People tend to leave homes empty because they are trying to resolve a situation regarding the will or estate of a deceased relative or because they are being renovated. However, once a house has been empty for a year or two or three, you start to question whether there is any valid excuse for allowing such a valuable asset to lie in the community in such a condition when it could be brought back into use. It could be sold, and it certainly could be used to house somebody who does not have a home of their own. So, the provision of a loan fund is one way forward in trying to encourage landlords or owners to take the necessary steps to bring those properties back into use. Obviously, this would be subject to the detail, and I am sure that the Minister, as he indicated in committee this morning, will give us some information on the details. We believe, however, that partnership working between local councils, housing associations and owners is needed as part of these loans to identify suitable properties for improvement and to make the most of the money available. I would hope that if any public money is given as a loan, when the property is brought back up to a reasonable standard, we could set some conditions to insist that it is used for social housing, or for affordable housing, so that people who are experiencing difficulties in getting on the housing ladder can make use of such a home for a short period until they find their feet.

Mae pobl yn tueddu i adael cartrefi’n wag oherwydd eu bod yn ceisio datrys sefyllfa ynghylch ewyllys neu ystâd perthynas a fu farw neu oherwydd eu bod yn cael eu hadnewyddu. Fodd bynnag, unwaith y bydd tŷ wedi bod yn wag am flwyddyn neu ddwy neu dair, rydych yn dechrau amau a oes unrhyw esgus dilys dros ganiatáu ased mor werthfawr i aros felly yn y gymuned mewn cyflwr o’r fath pan ellid ei ddwyn yn ôl i ddefnydd. Gellid ei werthu, ac yn sicr gellid ei ddefnyddio i roi cartref i rywun nad oes ganddynt gartref eu hunain. Felly, mae darparu cronfa benthyciadau yn un ffordd ymlaen wrth geisio annog landlordiaid neu berchnogion i gymryd y camau angenrheidiol i ddwyn yr eiddo hynny yn ôl i ddefnydd. Yn amlwg, byddai hyn yn amodol ar y manylion, ac yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd y Gweinidog, fel y nododd yn y pwyllgor y bore yma, yn rhoi rhywfaint o wybodaeth i ni am y manylion. Credwn, fodd bynnag, bod angen i gynghorau lleol, cymdeithasau tai a pherchnogion weithio mewn partneriaeth fel rhan o’r benthyciadau hyn i nodi eiddo addas i’w gwella a gwneud y mwyaf o’r arian sydd ar gael. Os rhoddir unrhyw arian cyhoeddus fel benthyciad, gobeithio, pan fydd yr eiddo yn cael ei ddwyn yn ôl i safon resymol, y gellid gosod rhai amodau er mwyn mynnu y caiff ei ddefnyddio ar gyfer tai cymdeithasol, neu ar gyfer tai fforddiadwy, fel bod pobl sy’n cael trafferth cael troed ar yr ysgol dai yn gallu defnyddio cartref o’r fath am gyfnod byr hyd nes eu bod yn fwy hyderus o’u sefyllfa.

The Essex review of affordable housing called on the Government to establish a programme to tackle private empty homes. This money may be the start of the programme, but I do not think that it adds up to a programme in itself. In our motion, we have set out a number of ideas that we believe should be in the programme, and I think that the Minister has indicated in the past that he is supportive of a number of those ideas.

Galwodd adolygiad Essex ar dai fforddiadwy ar y Llywodraeth i sefydlu rhaglen i fynd i’r afael â chartrefi gwag preifat. Efallai y bydd yr arian hwn yn rhoi dechrau i raglen, ond ni chredaf ei fod yn gyfystyr â rhaglen ynddi ei hun. Yn ein cynnig, rydym wedi nodi nifer o syniadau y credwn a ddylai fod yn y rhaglen, a chredaf fod y Gweinidog wedi nodi yn y gorffennol ei fod yn gefnogol i nifer o’r syniadau hynny.

We believe that a carrot-and-stick approach may be needed. The carrot is in the loans, while the stick is in saying to the owner of a property that, if they allow their house to stay empty for a long time, they will pay a penalty for that, perhaps through additional council tax to compensate the community for the blight that has been wrought upon it and to compensate the council for having to take action through its officers in working with residents, in having to serve statutory notices and in having to work with the owner to try to bring the property back into use. The idea behind this motion is that it is a positive and, we hope, helpful way forward to rid Wales of the 22,000 to 26,000 private homes that lie empty in our communities.

Rydym yn credu bod angen dull i wobrwyo. Y wobr yw’r benthyciadau, tra byddai perchennog yr eiddo’n talu cosb os byddant yn caniatáu i’w tai aros yn wag am gyfnod hir, efallai trwy dreth gyngor ychwanegol er mwyn gwneud iawn i’r gymuned am y malltod a barwyd iddi ac i ddigolledu’r cyngor am orfod cymryd camau drwy ei swyddogion trwy weithio gyda thrigolion, trwy orfod cyflwyno hysbysiadau statudol a gorfod gweithio gyda’r perchennog i geisio dwyn yr eiddo yn ôl i ddefnydd. Y syniad tu ôl i’r cynnig hwn yw ei fod yn gam cadarnhaol a, gobeithio, yn ffordd ddefnyddiol ymlaen i gael gwared ar y 22,000 i 26,000 o gartrefi preifat Cymru sy’n sefyll yn wag yn ein cymunedau.

The demand for housing is increasing in Wales, especially for affordable and social housing. Young people are struggling to get on to the housing ladder, and an increasing number of people are applying to be classed as homeless. Shelter Cymru recently reported that the amount of advice that it is providing on home repossession has risen 300 per cent in the past three years. So, there is no shortage of takers for these houses.

Mae’r galw am dai yn cynyddu yng Nghymru, yn arbennig am dai cymdeithasol a fforddiadwy. Mae pobl ifanc yn cael trafferth i fynd ar yr ysgol dai, ac mae nifer cynyddol o bobl yn gwneud cais i gael eu hadnabod yn ddigartref. Nododd Shelter Cymru yn ddiweddar bod y cyngor mae’n ei ddarparu ar adfeddiannu cartref wedi codi 300 y cant yn y tair blynedd diwethaf. Felly, nid oes prinder pobl ar gyfer y tai hyn.

What is our approach? We want councils to be allowed to be flexible in their approach to council tax. This is a power for local councils to use and not a duty imposed on them, so they have the power, if need be, to impose additional council tax on empty properties if they think that that is appropriate. Owners of empty properties currently pay no council tax for the first six months of the property being empty, and are then required to pay just 50 per cent council tax. Councils have a power at the moment to increase the council tax beyond 100 per cent, but they must impose that after 12 months. That period of 12 months is often not long enough to resolve any problems, particularly when there is a disputed estate to be sorted out after the death of the property owner. That is why there needs to be a change in the law to extend that period and give even more flexibility to councils to deal with that.

Beth yw ein hymagwedd? Rydym am i gynghorau gael rhwydd hynt i fod yn hyblyg yn eu hymagwedd at y dreth gyngor. Mae hwn yn bŵer i gynghorau lleol i’w ddefnyddio ac nid yn ddyletswydd arnynt, fel bod ganddynt y pŵer, os bydd angen, i godi treth gyngor ychwanegol ar eiddo gwag os ydynt yn credu bod hynny’n briodol. Nid yw perchnogion eiddo gwag ar hyn o bryd yn talu unrhyw dreth gyngor am y chwe mis cyntaf mae’r eiddo yn wag, ac maent wedyn ond yn gorfod talu 50 y cant o dreth gyngor. Mae pŵer gan gynghorau ar hyn o bryd i gynyddu’r dreth gyngor y tu hwnt i 100 y cant, ond mae’n rhaid iddynt godi hynny ar ôl 12 mis. Yn aml nid yw’r cyfnod hwnnw o 12 mis yn ddigon hir i ddatrys unrhyw broblemau, yn enwedig pan fo angen datrys ystâd sy’n destun anghydfod ar ôl marwolaeth perchennog yr eiddo. Dyna pam mae angen newid yn y gyfraith i ymestyn y cyfnod hwnnw a rhoi hyd yn oed mwy o hyblygrwydd i gynghorau ddelio â hynny.

There are also areas where we want to see the Welsh Government working with the UK Government on this issue. It will come as no news to the Chamber that we want to bring the VAT rate for home renovations down from 20 per cent to 5 per cent. This issue has been raised in the Chamber from the beginning of the Assembly. It was raised with the previous UK Labour Government and it has been raised with the present UK coalition Government. Both Governments have so far rejected it, but that is no reason why we should give up on pursuing this, because the rewards of that type of VAT reduction could be huge. For example, the Federation of Master Builders estimates that a reduction in VAT from 20 per cent to 5 per cent would create almost 1,000 new construction jobs in Wales in 2012, and up to 1,461 jobs by 2015. That is quite a precise figure, but I think that you get the picture in terms of the number of jobs that could be created by the extra work that would be generated, because the amount of money that we have in the public sector to regenerate houses would stretch further because we would not have to pay so much VAT. Owners would also have an additional incentive to bring those properties back into use.

Mae yna hefyd feysydd lle rydym am weld Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithio gyda Llywodraeth y DU ar y mater hwn. Ni fydd yn syndod i’r Siambr ein bod am ddod â’r gyfradd TAW ar gyfer adnewyddu cartref i lawr o 20 y cant i 5 y cant. Cafodd y mater hwn ei godi yn y Siambr ers dechrau’r Cynulliad. Fe’i codwyd gyda Llywodraeth Lafur flaenorol y DU, ac fe’i codwyd gyda Llywodraeth glymblaid bresennol y DU. Mae’r ddwy Lywodraeth wedi’i wrthod hyd yma, ond nid yw hynny’n rheswm pam y dylem roi’r gorau i fynd ar drywydd hyn, oherwydd gallai’r gwobrau yn sgîl y math hwnnw o ostyngiad mewn TAW fod yn enfawr. Er enghraifft, mae Ffederasiwn y Meistr Adeiladwyr yn amcangyfrif y byddai gostyngiad mewn TAW o 20 y cant i 5 y cant yn creu bron i 1,000 o swyddi adeiladu newydd yng Nghymru yn 2012, a hyd at 1,461 o swyddi erbyn 2015. Mae hwnnw’n ffigur eithaf manwl, ond credaf eich bod yn cael y syniad o ran nifer y swyddi a allai gael eu creu gan y gwaith ychwanegol, oherwydd byddai swm yr arian sydd gennym yn y sector cyhoeddus i adfywio tai yn ymestyn ymhellach achos ni fyddai’n rhaid inni dalu cymaint o DAW. Hefyd, byddai cymhelliad arall gan berchnogion i ddwyn yr eiddo hynny yn ôl i ddefnydd.

Therefore, I hope that the motion provides a constructive and useful way forward. I look forward to the Minister’s response to it, and I would urge the Assembly to support it as a possible basis for an empty homes strategy, which is long overdue for introduction by the Welsh Government.

Felly, gobeithio fod y cynnig yn ffordd adeiladol a defnyddiol ymlaen. Edrychaf ymlaen at ymateb y Gweinidog iddo, a byddwn yn annog y Cynulliad i’w gefnogi fel sail bosibl ar gyfer strategaeth gartrefi gwag, sydd wedi bod lawer rhy hir yn cael ei chyflwyno gan Lywodraeth Cymru.

Gwelliant 1 William Graham

Amendment 1 William Graham

Yn is-bwynt 2a) dileu ‘tai cymdeithasol’ a rhoi yn ei le ‘tai ar gyfer rhent canolradd a chymdeithasol;’

In sub point 2a) delete ‘social housing’ and replace with ‘housing for social and intermediate rent;’

Gwelliant 2 William Graham

Amendment 2 William Graham

Ychwanegu ar ddiwedd is-bwynt 2b) ond mae hynny’n golygu bod angen delio â sefyllfaoedd ystadau sydd mewn profedigaeth yn sensitif;

Add at end of sub point 2 b) but that requires bereaved estate situations to be handled with sensitivity;

Gwelliant 3 William Graham

Amendment 3 William Graham

Yn is-bwynt 2c), dileu popeth ar ôl ‘Lywodraeth y DU’ a rhoi yn ei le ‘i ymgymryd â dadansoddiad cost a budd ynghylch effaith economaidd gostwng cyfradd TAW ar waith atgyweirio a gwella ar adeiladau sydd eisoes yn bodoli;’

In sub point 2c), delete all after ‘UK Government’ and replace with ‘to undertake a cost benefit analysis into the economic impact of a reduction in the rate of VAT on building repairs and improvement work to existing buildings;’

Gwelliant 4 William Graham

Amendment 4 William Graham

Ychwanegu fel is-bwynt newydd ar ddiwedd pwynt 2:

Add as new sub-point at end of point 2:

‘darpariaeth y dylai unrhyw gamau gorfodi fod yn gam olaf.’

‘provision that any enforcement action should be a last resort.’

Gwelliant 5 William Graham

Amendment 5 William Graham

Ychwanegu fel is-bwynt newydd ar ddiwedd pwynt 2:

Add as new sub-point at end of point 2:

‘datblygu ym mhob sir gronfa ddata o gartrefi sydd wedi bod yn wag yn y tymor hir.’

‘the development within each county of a database of long term empty homes.’

Mark Isherwood: I move amendments 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 in the name of William Graham.

Mark Isherwood: Cynigiaf welliannau 1, 2, 3, 4 a 5 yn enw William Graham.

It is years since the Homes for All Cymru report, ‘Blueprint for Action’, stated that there was a crisis in Wales. It said that there were simply not enough decent homes at a cost people could afford to meet demand, and that it was getting worse because demand was increasing and fewer homes were being provided. It said that it was not a new crisis, although the economic downturn was making it even worse, and added that the current housing system had been failing for a long time.

Mae blynyddoedd wedi bod ers i adroddiad Homes for All Cymru, ‘Blueprint for Action’, ddweud bod argyfwng yng Nghymru. Dywedodd nad oedd digon o gartrefi addas er mwyn ateb y galw am bris y gallai pobl fforddio, a bod y sefyllfa’n gwaethygu gan fod galw’n cynyddu a llai o gartrefi’n cael eu darparu. Dywedodd nad oedd yn argyfwng newydd, er bod y dirywiad economaidd yn ei wneud hyd yn oed yn waeth, ac ychwanegodd fod y system dai bresennol wedi bod yn methu ers amser maith.

Affordable housing simply means housing that people can afford. With an estimated 100,000 households on waiting lists, maximising the opportunity presented by the estimated 8,000 private empty homes in north Wales and the 23,000 empty homes across Wales can be part of the solution. We welcome yesterday’s announcement by the Welsh Government that it will follow the lead set by the UK Government and invest to bring some empty properties back into use, but we need more detail.

Yn syml, mae tai fforddiadwy yn golygu tai y gall pobl eu fforddio. Gydag amcangyfrif o 100,000 o aelwydydd ar restrau aros, gallai manteisio i’r eithaf ar y cyfle a gyflwynir gan amcangyfrif o 8,000 o gartrefi preifat gwag yn y gogledd a 23,000 o gartrefi gwag ledled Cymru fod yn rhan o’r ateb. Rydym yn croesawu cyhoeddiad Llywodraeth Cymru ddoe y bydd yn dilyn yr arweiniad a osodwyd gan Lywodraeth y DU a buddsoddi i ddwyn rhai eiddo gwag yn ôl i ddefnydd, ond mae angen mwy o fanylion arnom.

We supported funding by the previous Welsh Government for the Shelter Cymru project that encouraged local authorities to bring empty homes back into use. Some local authorities have taken a lead, but some are falling behind. Denbighshire has been named as the top provider of affordable housing in north Wales, according to recent figures released by the Welsh Government, which were based on population figures. Denbighshire’s empty homes strategy identifies empty homes and brings them back into use for affordable housing. Talks to set up a network of north Wales empty homes officers are to be welcomed. Denbighshire’s empty homes officer, funded by North Wales Housing Association, says that every empty home will have a different story, and that the key is to understand why it is empty and to work closely with the owner to bring it back into use.

Gwnaethom gefnogi cyllid gan y Llywodraeth Cymru flaenorol ar gyfer prosiect Shelter Cymru a oedd yn annog awdurdodau lleol i ddwyn cartrefi gwag yn ôl i ddefnydd. Mae rhai awdurdodau lleol wedi cymryd yr awenau, ond mae rhai ar ei hôl hi. Mae Sir Ddinbych wedi’i henwi fel y darparwr tai fforddiadwy gorau fforddiadwy yn y gogledd, yn ôl ffigurau diweddar a ryddhawyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru, a oedd yn seiliedig ar ffigurau poblogaeth. Mae strategaeth cartrefi gwag Sir Ddinbych yn nodi cartrefi gwag ac yn dod â nhw yn ôl i ddefnydd ar gyfer tai fforddiadwy. Mae trafodaethau i sefydlu rhwydwaith o swyddogion cartrefi gwag yn y Gogledd yn rhywbeth i’w groesawu. Mae swyddog cartrefi gwag Sir Ddinbych, a ariannwyd gan Gymdeithas Tai Gogledd Cymru, yn dweud y bydd gan bob cartref gwag stori wahanol, ac mai’r allwedd yw deall pam ei fod yn wag a gweithio’n agos gyda’r perchennog i’w ddwyn yn ôl i ddefnydd.

Amendment 1 recognises the opportunity to use empty homes as social housing, but it also recognises that many of those on waiting lists, or otherwise in affordable housing need, are better suited to intermediate rent, that is, rents above the level of social rents, but below market rents.

Mae gwelliant 1 yn cydnabod y cyfle i ddefnyddio cartrefi gwag fel tai cymdeithasol, ond mae hefyd yn cydnabod bod llawer o’r rhai sydd ar restrau aros, neu angen tai fforddiadwy fel arall, yn fwy addas i rent canolradd, hynny yw, rhenti uwch na lefel y rhenti cymdeithasol ond islaw rhenti’r farchnad.

5.15 p.m.

Denbighshire County Council advises that, although an empty homes grant is conditional on renting on the social housing list for a minimum of five years, the properties will be presented as affordable housing to housing associations. A PricewaterhouseCoopers report has suggested allowing associations to use empty properties to generate additional capital by making them available for intermediate rent, among other things.

Mae Cyngor Sir Ddinbych yn dweud, er bod grant cartrefi gwag yn amodol ar rentu ar y rhestr tai cymdeithasol am o leiaf bum mlynedd, y bydd yr eiddo yn cael ei gyflwyno fel tai fforddiadwy i gymdeithasau tai. Awgrymodd adroddiad PricewaterhouseCoopers y dylid caniatáu i gymdeithasau ddefnyddio eiddo gwag i gynhyrchu cyfalaf ychwanegol drwy sicrhau ei fod ar gael am rent canolradd, ymhlith pethau eraill.

Empty homes strategies apply to long-term empty homes unoccupied for over six months having previously been used as residential dwellings. We need to target properties where there is no viable plan to bring them back into use, but we need particular sensitivity in the case of bereaved estates—hence amendment 2. People who have suffered the loss of a loved one should not have to endure the added indignity of punitive council tax rates or having their home seized if they delay in deciding what to do with the property. That leads to amendment 4, which provides that any enforcement action should be a last resort.

Mae strategaethau cartrefi gwag yn berthnasol i gartrefi gwag hirdymor a fu’n wag am fwy na chwe mis ar ôl eu defnyddio fel anheddau preswyl. Mae angen i ni dargedu eiddo lle nad oes cynllun ymarferol i ddod â hwy yn ôl i ddefnydd, ond mae angen sensitifrwydd arbennig yn achos ystadau lle bu profedigaeth—felly wele welliant 2. Ni ddylai pobl sydd wedi colli rhywun annwyl orfod dioddef y sarhad ychwanegol o dalu cyfraddau treth gyngor cosbol neu atafaelu eu cartref os ydynt yn oedi wrth benderfynu beth i’w wneud â’r eiddo. Mae hynny’n arwain at welliant 4, sy’n dweud y dylai unrhyw gamau gorfodi fod yn ddewis olaf.

For an owner, it costs money to leave a home empty. Effective empty homes strategies seek to work with, rather than against, owners, developing services to support them and to overcome the hurdles that they face. That does not mean that local authorities should not, where necessary, use their enforcement powers to make things happen.

I berchennog, mae’n costio arian i adael cartref yn wag. Mae strategaethau cartrefi gwag effeithiol yn ceisio gweithio pherchnogion, yn hytrach nag yn eu herbyn, gan ddatblygu gwasanaethau i’w cefnogi a goresgyn y rhwystrau sy’n eu hwynebu. Nid yw hynny’n golygu na ddylai awdurdodau lleol, lle bo angen, ddefnyddio eu pwerau gorfodi i wneud i bethau ddigwydd.

Amendment 3 recognises that any VAT reduction for building repairs, and improvement work for existing buildings, should be based on a cost-benefit analysis of economic impact. Unless compensating tax revenues were generated, the money would otherwise have to be found through cuts or other tax rises. Further, the renovation of derelict domestic properties that have not been lived in for two years already benefits from reduced VAT. Amendment 5 calls for the development within each county of a database of long-term empty homes.

Mae gwelliant 3 yn cydnabod y dylai unrhyw ostyngiad mewn TAW ar gyfer atgyweirio adeiladau, a gwaith gwella ar gyfer adeiladau presennol, fod yn seiliedig ar ddadansoddiad cost a budd o’r effaith economaidd. Oni bai bod refeniw treth i ddigolledu yn cael ei gynhyrchu, byddai’n rhaid dod o hyd i’r arian drwy doriadau neu godiadau treth eraill. Ymhellach, mae adnewyddu eiddo domestig adfeiliedig nad oes neb wedi byw ynddo am ddwy flynedd eisoes yn elwa o lai o DAW. Mae gwelliant 5 yn galw am ddatblygu cronfa ddata o dai gwag hirdymor ym mhob sir.

Ann Jones: Do you regret that your coalition Government in Westminster has raised VAT to 20 per cent?

Ann Jones: A ydych yn gresynu bod eich Llywodraeth glymblaid yn San Steffan wedi codi TAW i 20 y cant?

Mark Isherwood: It is better than a tax on jobs.

Mark Isherwood: Mae’n well na threth ar swyddi.

There is already relief for properties that have been empty for more than two years. If a cost-benefit analysis shows that revenues could be generated to compensate, then we would need to look at that as an alternative. There is no quick fix; this is a painstaking process. In Denbighshire, for example, 154 of 913 identified empty homes were brought back into use last year. Hundreds of letters have been sent this year. ‘Yes’ responses generate an arranged visit to score the properties, and ‘No’ responses or no replies are contacted again after 6 months. That develops a new database to enable better targeting. Let us deliver empty homes strategies based on good working relationships with property owners to encourage voluntary reuse of long-term empty homes as quality affordable accommodation for those who need it.

Mae rhyddhad eisoes i eiddo sydd wedi bod yn wag am fwy na dwy flynedd. Os yw dadansoddiad cost a budd yn dangos y gallai refeniw gael ei gynhyrchu i ddigolledu, yna byddai angen i ni edrych ar hynny fel dewis arall. Nid oes ateb cyflym; mae hon yn broses drylwyr. Yn sir Ddinbych, er enghraifft, dygwyd 154 o 913 o gartrefi a nodwyd fel rhai gwag yn ôl i ddefnydd y llynedd. Mae cannoedd o lythyrau wedi cael eu hanfon eleni.  Mae ymatebion cadarnhaol yn arwain at drefnu ymweliad i sgorio’r eiddo, ac os ceir ymatebion negyddol neu ddim ateb cysylltir eto ar ôl 6 mis. Mae hynny’n datblygu cronfa ddata newydd i alluogi targedu gwell. Gadewch i ni gyflwyno strategaethau cartrefi gwag yn seiliedig ar berthynas waith dda gyda pherchnogion eiddo i annog ailddefnydd gwirfoddol o dai gwag hirdymor fel llety fforddiadwy o safon ar gyfer y rhai sydd ei angen.

Gwelliant 6 Jocelyn Davies

Amendment 6 Jocelyn Davies

Ychwanegu fel is-bwynt newydd ar ddiwedd pwynt 2:

Add as new sub point at end of point 2:

‘cyhoeddi targedau ar gyfer nifer y cartrefi sydd yn dod yn ôl i gael eu defnyddio bob blwyddyn.’

‘publishing targets for the number of homes to be brought back into use each year.’

Leanne Wood: I move amendment 6 in the name of Jocelyn Davies.

Leanne Wood: Cynigiaf welliant 6 yn enw Jocelyn Davies.

Plaid Cymru supports bringing empty homes back into use. In our 2011 manifesto, there were a number of proposals to help with achieving that, including allowing 200 per cent council tax rates on empty and second homes, an affordable loan scheme for home improvements and energy efficiency, and for VAT to be cut to 5 per cent for home repairs, maintenance and improvements. A combination of those three measures would allow for an economic stimulus for making empty homes habitable and would go further in creating local jobs for people to retrofit, build, insulate and improve old housing stock—as proposed in a green print for the Valleys that I may have mentioned here once or twice before.

Mae Plaid Cymru yn cefnogi dod â thai gwag yn ôl i ddefnydd. Yn ein maniffesto eleni, yr oedd nifer o gynigion i helpu i wneud hynny, gan gynnwys caniatáu cyfraddau treth gyngor o 200 y cant ar gartrefi gwag ac ail gartrefi, cynllun benthyca fforddiadwy ar gyfer gwelliannau i’r cartref ac effeithlonrwydd ynni, a thorri TAW i 5 y cant ar gyfer gwaith atgyweirio, cynnal a chadw a gwelliannau i’r cartref. Byddai cyfuniad o’r tri mesur hynny yn caniatáu ysgogiad economaidd i wneud cartrefi gwag yn addas i fyw ynddynt ac yn mynd ymhellach o ran creu swyddi lleol i bobl ôl-osod, adeiladu, inswleiddio a gwella hen stoc dai—fel y cynigir mewn cynllun gwyrdd i’r Cymoedd yr wyf efallai wedi sôn amdano yma unwaith neu ddwywaith o’r blaen.

Empty homes, especially concentrations of empty homes, are a blight on communities. They are more likely to be found in areas where there are concentrations of low incomes. A serious plan to tackle that would also provide a regeneration opportunity. Existing legislation provides for a number of ways in which local authorities can intervene to turn empty homes into habitable homes. However, the use of these powers has historically been rare and the performance of local authorities in turning empty properties around has varied considerably.

Mae cartrefi gwag, yn enwedig crynodiadau o gartrefi gwag, yn bla ar gymunedau. Maent yn fwy tebygol o fod mewn ardaloedd lle ceir crynodiadau o incwm isel. Byddai cynllun o ddifri i fynd i’r afael â hynny hefyd yn darparu cyfle i adfywio. Mae’r ddeddfwriaeth bresennol yn darparu nifer o ffyrdd y gall awdurdodau lleol ymyrryd i droi tai gwag yn gartrefi y gellir byw ynddynt. Fodd bynnag, mae defnydd o’r pwerau hyn wedi bod yn brin yn hanesyddol ac mae perfformiad awdurdodau lleol wrth droi eiddo gwag o gwmpas wedi amrywio’n sylweddol.

In 2010, Wrexham and Denbighshire managed to bring 20 per cent of vacant homes back into use, whereas most local authorities only managed somewhere between 2 and 3 per cent. There are more than 3,000 empty homes in Rhondda Cynon Taf, and just 138 empty homes in Wrexham. Only two empty dwelling management orders have ever been granted in Wales. The process is not simple, and it can be expensive, so a simplification would help, and changes to the way that council tax is charged would help to resolve the problem of owners who apply to remove properties from the valuations list due to disrepair, which provides an incentive to leave properties empty and in a dilapidated state.

Yn 2010, llwyddodd Wrecsam a sir Ddinbych i ddod â 20 y cant o gartrefi gwag yn ôl i ddefnydd, tra bod y rhan fwyaf o awdurdodau lleol ond wedi llwyddo gyda rhywle rhwng 2 y cant a 3 y cant. Mae mwy na 3,000 o gartrefi gwag yn Rhondda Cynon Taf, a dim ond 138 o gartrefi gwag yn Wrecsam. Dim ond dau orchymyn rheoli anheddau gwag sydd erioed wedi’u caniatáu yng Nghymru. Nid yw’r broses yn syml, a gall fod yn ddrud, felly byddai ei symleiddio yn helpu, a byddai newidiadau i’r ffordd mae’r dreth gyngor yn cael ei chodi yn helpu i ddatrys y broblem lle mae perchnogion yn gwneud cais i gael gwared ar eiddo oddi ar y rhestr prisiadau oherwydd cyflwr gwael, sy’n rhoi cymhelliad i adael eiddo yn wag ac mewn cyflwr adfeiliedig.

Shelter Cymru has run a sterling campaign on empty homes. It has been heavily involved in a project to encourage people to report empty homes to a website and the details are forwarded on to the relevant department. Shelter Cymru has also called for a requirement on owners of empty homes to list the reasons for the property being empty and to outline their plans to bring the home back into use. It has also called for further guidance and support for local authorities that are reluctant to take the risk associated with action.

Mae Shelter Cymru wedi cynnal ymgyrch penigamp ar gartrefi gwag. Mae wedi ymwneud yn helaeth â phrosiect i annog pobl i roi gwybod am dai gwag ar wefan ac mae’r manylion yn cael eu hanfon at yr adran berthnasol. Mae Shelter Cymru hefyd wedi galw am orfodi perchnogion cartrefi gwag i restru’r rhesymau pam fod yr eiddo yn wag ac amlinellu eu cynlluniau i ddod â’r cartref yn ôl i ddefnydd. Galwodd hefyd am ganllawiau a chymorth pellach ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol sy’n amharod i gymryd y risg sy’n gysylltiedig â gweithredu.

The performance of Wrexham and Denbighshire councils shows that a target of 20 per cent of empty homes being brought back into use every year is achievable, although I accept that we would see diminishing returns in later years with the most difficult properties. A target of 20 per cent would translate into around 4,000 homes in Wales each year. I understand that the Minister has signalled his intention to introduce targets, but they would need to be ambitious and published targets and they should be targets that we are able to look at soon.

Dengys perfformiad cynghorau Wrecsam a sir Ddinbych fod targed o ddwyn 20 y cant o gartrefi gwag yn ôl i ddefnydd bob blwyddyn yn gyraeddadwy, er fy mod yn derbyn na fyddem yn gweld cystal canlyniadau mewn blynyddoedd diweddarach gyda’r eiddo mwyaf anodd. Byddai targed o 20 y cant yn trosi’n rhyw 4,000 o gartrefi yng Nghymru bob blwyddyn. Deallaf fod y Gweinidog wedi dweud ei bod yn fwriad ganddo gyflwyno targedau, ond byddai angen iddynt fod yn dargedau uchelgeisiol wedi’u cyhoeddi a dylent fod yn dargedau y gallwn ni edrych arnynt cyn bo hir.

Empty homes come at a considerable cost. One or two empty homes in a street give an impression of a rundown and unattractive community, that the powers that be are not concerned about. The Government has indicated its intention to legislate on empty properties, and we await the details on that. We look forward to seeing whether the legislation will make a noticeable difference to this problem. We also look forward to seeing ambitious targets, not just on empty homes, but on the building of new affordable homes too, because such targets should drive action, and action is what we need right now.

Mae cost sylweddol yn sgîl cartrefi gwag. Mae un neu ddau o gartrefi gwag mewn stryd yn rhoi argraff o gymuned ddirywiedig ac anneniadol, nad yw’r awdurdodau mewn grym yn pryderu amdani. Mae’r Llywodraeth wedi nodi ei bwriad i ddeddfu ar eiddo gwag, ac yr ydym yn aros am y manylion am hynny. Edrychwn ymlaen i weld a fydd y ddeddfwriaeth yn gwneud gwahaniaeth amlwg i’r broblem hon. Yr ydym hefyd yn edrych ymlaen at weld targedau uchelgeisiol, nid yn unig ar gartrefi gwag, ond ar adeiladu cartrefi fforddiadwy newydd hefyd, gan y dylai targedau o’r fath yrru camau gweithredu, a gweithredu sydd ei angen arnom ar hyn o bryd.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd Dros Dro: Unwaith yn rhagor, os yw pob siaradwr yn mynnu cymryd y cyfnod llawn sy’n cael ei gynnig iddynt, ni fyddaf yn gallu galw pawb sydd wedi mynegi diddordeb mewn cyfrannu at y ddadl hon.

The Temporary Deputy Presiding Officer: Once again, if each speaker insists on taking all the time available to them, I will not be able to call everyone who has expressed an interest in contributing to this debate.

Mike Hedges: May I say that I agree with a great deal of what has been said by both Peter Black and Leanne Wood? That probably means that I will not talk for as long as I had intended to. I will start by saying that if an awful lot of empty houses were brought back into use, it would improve the lives of the people who could move into them and, more importantly, the communities in which they stand. In the programme for government, there is a commitment to introducing a new empty properties initiative. I warmly welcome that.

Mike Hedges: A gaf i ddweud fy mod yn cytuno â llawer o’r hyn a ddywedodd Peter Black a Leanne Wood? Mae’n debyg bod hynny’n golygu na fyddaf yn siarad am gyhyd ag yr oeddwn wedi ei fwriadu. Dechreuaf drwy ddweud pe bai llawer iawn o dai gwag yn cael eu dwyn yn ôl i ddefnydd, byddai’n gwella bywydau’r bobl a allai symud i mewn iddynt ac, yn bwysicach, y cymunedau lle maent yn sefyll. Yn y rhaglen lywodraethu, ceir ymrwymiad i gyflwyno menter eiddo gwag newydd. Croesawaf hynny yn frwd.

Empty homes are a waste of resources, but their real effect is on the neighbours. I will concentrate on that for a few moments. I dealt with one case in Banwell Street, which I can talk about because it has been in the local press. It took me five years to get something done. The house was left, the roof came off and the people living in the houses alongside it suffered all sorts of problems. They suffered from damp, and nuisances such as people going there and taking drugs, people squatting there on occasions and all sorts of anti-social behaviour that arises when gangs of youths can gather around a building with impunity. It was a real blot on the landscape. The people living on that street were embarrassed when people came to visit them, because of the state of that house. It did not have any windows, it did not have much of a roof and it was in a terrible state. That is well known in the sense that it has been in the local press and so on, but there are lots of other houses left in that state. Swansea had a good record on this, but, unfortunately, it decided last year to delete the post of empty properties officer, which is a retrograde step.

Mae cartrefi gwag yn gwastraffu adnoddau, ond mae eu heffaith gwirioneddol ar y cymdogion. Canolbwyntio ar hynny am eiliad. Deliais ag un achos yn Stryd Banwell, y gallaf siarad amdano gan y bu yn y wasg leol. Cymerodd bum mlynedd i mi gael rhywbeth wedi ei wneud. Cafodd y tŷ ei adael, daeth y to i ffwrdd a dioddefodd y bobl sy’n byw yn y tai gerllaw bob math o broblemau. Dioddefasant o leithder, a phoendod fel pobl yn mynd yno a chymryd cyffuriau, pobl yn sgwatio yno ar adegau a phob math o ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol sy’n digwydd pan all criwiau o bobl ifanc gasglu o amgylch adeilad heb eu llesteirio. Yr oedd yn ddolur llygad go iawn. Yr oedd y bobl sy’n byw ar y stryd yn teimlo embaras pan roedd pobl yn ymweld â hwy, oherwydd cyflwr y tŷ hwnnw. Nid oedd ganddo unrhyw ffenestri, nid oedd ganddo lawer o do ac yr oedd mewn cyflwr ofnadwy. Mae hynny yn hysbys am ei fod wedi bod yn y wasg leol ac yn y blaen, ond mae llawer o dai eraill ar ôl yn y cyflwr hwnnw. Yr oedd gan Abertawe record dda ar hyn, ond, yn anffodus, penderfynodd y llynedd i ddileu y swydd swyddog eiddo gwag, sy’n gam yn ôl.

It is not just houses, but other empty buildings. Another well-known example in Swansea is Dunbar House, which is a grade II listed building. It is owned by somebody in Australia and the land outside is owned by somebody in Bristol. That is a problem. It could be turned into useful accommodation by a housing association. People would like and appreciate that, rather than having a substantial blot on the landscape. Leanne Wood summed it up when she said that empty dwelling management orders were a brilliant idea—I think that everyone was in favour of them—but they are rarely used. There is a range of actions that could be used on empty properties, but they all have one thing in common—they are rarely used. That is a serious problem. Totals of 21,970, 22,000 or 26,000—if half that number of properties came back into use, it would have a tremendous effect on the provision of accommodation for people. We need to look at why they are empty—some are empty because there were problems with people arguing over the estate; some are just left. People do not do anything about it. That is one of the examples where charging additional council tax might concentrate the mind. I also take the view that additional council tax should be charged on second homes too—that again might concentrate the mind. Council tax is an easy tax—it is very difficult to avoid and it is useful, because if people have to start paying out large sums of money each year, it might concentrate their minds an awful lot more than the £300 to £500 that they may be paying now.

Nid tai yn unig sy’n wag, ond adeiladau eraill hefyd. Enghraifft adnabyddus arall yn Abertawe yw Tŷ Dunbar, sy’n adeilad rhestredig gradd II. Mae’n eiddo i rywun yn Awstralia ac mae’r tir y tu allan yn eiddo i rywun ym Mryste. Mae hynny’n broblem. Gellid ei droi’n llety defnyddiol gan gymdeithas dai. Byddai pobl yn hoffi ac yn gwerthfawrogi hynny, yn hytrach na’i fod yn ddolur llygad sylweddol. Crynhodd Leanne Wood y sefyllfa pan ddywedodd fod gorchmynion rheoli anheddau gwag yn syniad gwych—credaf fod pawb o’u plaid—ond prin y cânt eu defnyddio. Mae ystod o gamau y gellid eu defnyddio ar eiddo gwag, ond mae ganddynt oll un peth yn gyffredin—prin y cânt eu defnyddio. Mae hynny’n broblem ddifrifol. Gyda chyfansymiau o 21,970, 22,000 neu 26,000—pe bai hanner y niferoedd hynny o eiddo yn dod yn ôl i ddefnydd, byddai’n cael effaith aruthrol ar ddarparu llety i bobl. Mae angen i ni edrych ar pam eu bod yn wag—mae rhai yn wag oherwydd problemau gyda phobl yn dadlau dros yr ystâd; dim ond cael eu gadael mae rhai. Nid yw pobl yn gwneud dim amdanynt. Dyna enghraifft lle gallai codi treth gyngor ychwanegol roi ffocws clir i’r meddwl. Yr wyf hefyd o’r farn y dylid codi treth gyngor ychwanegol ar ail gartrefi—gallai hynny eto roi ffocws clir i’r meddwl. Mae’r dreth gyngor yn dreth hawdd—mae’n anodd iawn i’w hosgoi ac mae’n ddefnyddiol, oherwydd os yw pobl yn gorfod dechrau talu symiau mawr o arian bob blwyddyn, gallai roi ffocws llawer cliriach i’w meddyliau lawer mwy na’r £300 i £500 y maent efallai yn ei dalu ar hyn o bryd.

Empty properties are not all run-down properties and they are not all in areas where they are difficult to sell. I know of two that would be exceptionally easy to sell in relatively affluent areas and that have just been left. In one case, two brothers have quarrelled and neither will allow the property to be sold, because the other will get the money. In the other case, somebody has just walked away from the property and left it. Charging these people additional council tax might get them to come back and start thinking again. You need some form of safety valve, because, in some places, houses are exceptionally difficult to sell, and I would hate to see people being penalised for not selling a house that they cannot sell—if  they are actively marketing the property and trying to sell it. I know somebody who lived in a Valleys community who had great difficulty in selling their parents’ house and was paying half the council tax for two or three years. They had great difficulty in getting someone to buy the house in an area where the properties were in abundance compared with the number of people who wished to live in them at that time.

Nid yw eiddo gwag wastad yn eiddo sydd wedi dirywio ac nid ydynt i gyd mewn ardaloedd lle maent yn anodd eu gwerthu. Gwn am ddau a fyddai’n eithriadol o hawdd i’w gwerthu mewn ardaloedd cymharol gefnog ac sydd dim ond wedi cael eu gadael. Mewn un achos, mae dau frawd wedi ffraeo ac ni wnaiff yr un ohonynt ganiatáu i’r eiddo gael ei werthu, oherwydd bydd y llall yn cael yr arian. Yn yr achos arall, mae rhywun newydd gerdded i ffwrdd oddi wrth yr eiddo a’i adael. Gallai codi treth gyngor ychwanegol ar y bobl hyn beri iddynt ddod yn ôl a dechrau meddwl eto. Mae angen rhyw fath o ddiogelwch arnoch, oherwydd, mewn rhai mannau, mae tai yn eithriadol o anodd ei gwerthu, a byddai’n gas gen i weld pobl yn cael eu cosbi am beidio â gwerthu tŷ na allant ei werthu—os ydynt yn mynd ati i farchnata’r eiddo ac yn ceisio ei werthu. Yr wyf yn adnabod rhywun a oedd yn byw mewn cymuned yn y Cymoedd a gafodd anhawster mawr yn gwerthu tŷ eu rhieni. Yr oeddent yn  talu hanner y dreth gyngor am ddwy neu dair blynedd. Yr oedd yn anodd iawn iddynt gael rhywun i brynu’r tŷ mewn ardal lle’r oedd llawer o dai o’u cymharu â nifer y bobl a oedd yn dymuno byw ynddynt ar y pryd.

A VAT reduction on home improvements would be a great achievement. It would help to get the property market moving, and it might get people to put additional rooms on houses, increasing the number of bedrooms, which would benefit everybody.

Byddai gostyngiad TAW ar welliannau cartref yn llwyddiant mawr. Byddai’n helpu i symud y farchnad eiddo, a gallai arwain at bobl i roi ystafelloedd ychwanegol mewn tai, gan gynyddu nifer yr ystafelloedd gwely, a fyddai o fudd i bawb.

The Temporary Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. Mike, it appears that you did find a great deal to say, even though you agreed with Leanne and Peter. [Laughter.]

Y Dirprwy Lywydd Dros Dro: Trefn.  Mike, mae’n ymddangos eich bod wedi dod o hyd i lawer iawn i’w ddweud, er eich bod yn cytuno gyda Leanne a Peter. [Chwerthin.]

Mike Hedges: I thank them for saying that, because it saved me from going on even further.

Mike Hedges: Diolch iddynt am ddweud hynny, oherwydd gwnaeth fy achub rhag mynd yn fy mlaen hyd yn oed yn fwy.

The Temporary Deputy Presiding Officer: You would not have been allowed to go on any further.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd Dros Dro: Ni fyddech wedi cael caniatâd i fynd ymlaen dim pellach.

Kirsty Williams: There are housing needs the length and breadth of Wales, but they can be particularly acute in rural areas. The gap between wages and purchase prices on the open market is often horrendous, driven by a heady mix of low rural wages and prices that are driven up in areas that are attractive to people retiring from the conurbations of London and Birmingham, who can sell properties there for vast amounts of money and quite easily purchase properties in rural areas. There are often constraints on development because of the nature of rural communities, which means that it is often impossible to build more houses to meet the demand, and there is a preponderance of second homes—if not second homes, homes that are part of the holiday let market. Also, areas that are reasonably close to conurbations are turned into part of the commuter belt—people earning higher wages in cities such as Cardiff now find it perfectly acceptable to commute from areas of south Powys, and do not find that exceptional, or into Hereford. The result is that many local people who live and work in those communities on local wages often find it nigh-on impossible to get into the housing market. There is a shortage of social housing for them, and that can lead to distressing personal situations.

Kirsty Williams: Mae angen tai ar hyd a lled Cymru, ond gall yr angen fod yn arbennig o ddwys mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Mae’r bwlch rhwng cyflogau a phrisiau prynu ar y farchnad agored yn aml yn erchyll, wedi ei yrru gan gymysgedd meddwol o gyflogau isel gwledig a phrisiau sy’n cael eu gyrru i fyny mewn ardaloedd deniadol i bobl sy’n ymddeol o gytrefi Llundain a Birmingham, sy’n gallu gwerthu eiddo yno am symiau enfawr o arian a phrynu eiddo mewn ardaloedd gwledig yn eithaf hawdd. Yn aml ceir cyfyngiadau ar ddatblygu oherwydd natur cymunedau gwledig, sy’n golygu ei bod yn aml yn amhosibl adeiladu mwy o dai i ateb y galw, ac mae gormod o ail gartrefi—os nad ydynt yn ail gartrefi, maent yn rhan o’r farchnad gosod tai i wyliau. Hefyd, mae ardaloedd sy’n weddol agos at gytrefi yn cael eu troi i mewn i ran o’r ardal teithio i’r gwaith—mae pobl sy’n ennill cyflogau uwch mewn dinasoedd fel Caerdydd yn awr yn ei chael yn gwbl dderbyniol i gymudo o ardaloedd yn ne Powys, ac nid ydynt yn gweld hynny’n eithriadol, neu i mewn i Henffordd. Y canlyniad yw bod llawer o bobl leol sy’n byw a gweithio yn y cymunedau hynny ar gyflogau lleol yn aml yn ei chael bron yn amhosibl i fynd i mewn i’r farchnad dai. Mae prinder tai cymdeithasol ar eu cyfer, a gall hynny arwain at sefyllfaoedd personol trallodus.

5.30 p.m.

Given that the Government and local authorities do not have a comprehensive record of empty homes—we will be supporting amendment 5 this afternoon—it is impossible to know whether bringing empty homes into use would make an appreciable difference to the housing pressures in rural areas, but, in all the communities that I represent, I am aware of empty properties that could be brought back into use. While they are not in use, they are a considerable blight on the community. Members have spoken of a variety of reasons why properties can be left empty. There is a particularly pernicious example in a market town that I represent. It is a property that is a mixture of retail and flats. The retail element went out of business, and the property was purchased by an individual who owns a great deal of property in the area with a view to converting all of it into flats—turning it from four flats and retail into six flats. Doing that would have brought it into the affordable housing bracket of the Brecon Beacons national park. Therefore, in order to get planning consent, the owner would have had to agree to rent out two of the flats at an affordable rent. He took exception to that. He did not want to be told by the state at what level he could rent out his properties, despite the fact that he could have made up the shortfall by simply charging a bit more for the other flats. Therefore, that building remains empty. It is rotting away in a prominent position within a market town, in an area where there is significant demand for affordable housing. That is a perfect example of why we need legislation, so that we can take action in such circumstances.

O gofio nad oes gan y Llywodraeth ac awdurdodau lleol gofnod cynhwysfawr o gartrefi gwag—byddwn yn cefnogi gwelliant 5 y prynhawn yma—mae’n amhosibl gwybod a fyddai dod â chartrefi gwag yn ôl i ddefnydd yn gwneud gwahaniaeth sylweddol i’r pwysau sydd ar dai mewn ardaloedd gwledig, ond, yn yr holl gymunedau a gynrychiolaf, yr wyf yn ymwybodol o eiddo gwag y gellid eu defnyddio eto. Tra’u bod yn wag, maent yn cael effaith sylweddol ar y gymuned. Mae Aelodau wedi sôn am amryw o resymau pam y gall eiddo fod yn wag. Mae enghraifft arbennig o andwyol mewn tref farchnad yr wyf yn ei chynrychioli. Mae’n eiddo sy’n gymysgedd o fflatiau ac elfen fanwerthu. Aeth yr elfen fanwerthu allan o fusnes, a phrynwyd yr eiddo gan unigolyn sy’n berchen ar lawer iawn o eiddo yn yr ardal, gyda’r bwriad o drosi’r cyfan yn fflatiau—ei droi o bedair fflat ac ardal fanwerthu i chwe fflat. Byddai gwneud hynny wedi dod ag ef i mewn i gategori tai fforddiadwy parc cenedlaethol Bannau Brycheiniog. Felly, er mwyn cael caniatâd cynllunio, byddai’r perchennog wedi gorfod cytuno i rentu dau o’r fflatiau am rent fforddiadwy. Roedd yn gwrthwynebu hynny. Nid oedd am i’r wladwriaeth ddweud wrtho faint o rent y dylai godi am ei eiddo, er y gallai fod wedi gwneud iawn am y diffyg drwy godi ychydig yn fwy am y fflatiau eraill. Felly, mae’n dal i fod yn adeilad gwag. Mae’n pydru mewn man amlwg mewn tref farchnad, mewn ardal lle mae galw mawr am dai fforddiadwy. Dyna enghraifft berffaith o pam mae angen deddfwriaeth, fel y gallwn gymryd camau mewn amgylchiadau o’r fath.

Naturally, we want to support amendment 2 from the Conservatives and treat bereaved families with sensitivity in what are often difficult circumstances while probate and issues of inheritance are sorted out—one would not want to act in a cavalier way. However, there are owners out there who are treating property, communities and local people in a cavalier way, and we need to strengthen the law to address those situations. We will support amendment 4. Enforcement should always be the last resort, of course, and a lot could be achieved by developing relationships and working with owners, but, in the end, we need that important failsafe if all reasonable attempts to build a relationship have failed and there is wilful neglect on the part of the property owner.

Yn naturiol, rydym eisiau cefnogi gwelliant 2 gan y Ceidwadwyr a thrin teuluoedd mewn profedigaeth yn sensitif yn yr hyn sydd yn amgylchiadau anodd yn aml tra bod profiant a materion etifeddiaeth yn cael eu datrys—ni fyddem am ymddwyn mewn ffordd ffwrdd-â-hi. Fodd bynnag, mae yna berchnogion sy’n trin eiddo, cymunedau a phobl leol mewn ffordd ffwrdd-â-hi, ac mae angen i ni gryfhau’r gyfraith i fynd i’r afael â’r sefyllfaoedd hynny. Byddwn yn cefnogi gwelliant 4. Dylai gorfodi fod yn ddewis olaf bob amser, wrth gwrs, a gellid gwneud llawer drwy ddatblygu cydberthnasau a gweithio gyda pherchnogion, ond, yn y pen draw, rydym angen y mesur pwysig hwnnw os yw pob ymdrech resymol i adeiladu perthynas wedi methu ac mae perchennog yr eiddo yn bod yn fwriadol esgeulus.  

We will also support Plaid Cymru’s amendment 6. We think that having targets that are attainable and measurable is worth while, but with targets must come concerted action by the Government. We very much welcome the Government’s commitment to a housing Bill, but we cannot wait that long; we need action before then and we need progress on that Bill in order to achieve with regard to this agenda.

Byddwn hefyd yn cefnogi gwelliant 6 Plaid Cymru. Rydym yn credu bod cael targedau sy’n gyraeddadwy a mesuradwy yn werth chweil, ond mae’n rhaid i’r Llywodraeth, wrth osod targedau, weithredu mewn modd unedig. Rydym yn croesawu ymrwymiad y Llywodraeth i Fesur tai, ond ni allwn aros mor hir â hynny; mae angen gweithredu cyn hynny ac mae angen cynnydd ar y Bil hwnnw er mwyn cyflawni yng nghyd-destun yr agenda hon.

Joyce Watson: Decent secure housing is fundamental to our wellbeing, and impacts on our health and on our jobs. Where we live affects where our children go to school and the services that we access. Wellbeing also starts at home, and depends on home, but too many people are vulnerably housed or homeless. I will not spend time going through all the statistics that you have heard, but I will pick up on two particular points. One is VAT reduction and low-cost loans to help improve conditions in the private rented sector. A VAT cut is something that my party, both here and at Westminster, supports. I hope that the Liberal Democrats have as much success in persuading their coalition partners of the merits of this policy as the Tories have had in persuading them to scale back on employment protection for workers—or relaxing workers’ rights, as they call it. A VAT cut would also provide a much-needed boost to the construction industry—something that I have discussed with the Federation of Master Builders and other construction organisations as chair of the cross-party group on construction.

Joyce Watson: Mae tai diogel a phropor yn sylfaenol i’n lles, ac yn effeithio ar ein hiechyd ac ar ein swyddi. Mae’r man yr ydym yn byw ynddo yn effeithio ar ble mae ein plant yn mynd i’r ysgol a’r gwasanaethau y gallwn eu defnyddio. Mae lles hefyd yn dechrau yn y cartref, ac mae’n dibynnu ar y cartref, ond mae gormod o bobl yn ddigartref neu’n cael eu lleoli mewn mannau lle maent yn agored i niwed. Nid wyf am dreulio amser yn mynd drwy’r holl ystadegau a glywsoch, ond soniaf am ddau bwynt penodol. Mae un am leihau TAW a benthyciadau cost isel er mwyn helpu i wella amodau yn y sector rhentu preifat. Mae torri TAW yn rhywbeth y mae fy mhlaid i, yma ac yn San Steffan, yn ei gefnogi. Rwy’n gobeithio y bydd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn cael cymaint o lwyddiant yn perswadio eu partneriaid clymblaid am rinweddau’r polisi hwn ag y cafodd y Torïaid yn eu perswadio i dorri nôl ar ddiogelwch cyflogaeth ar gyfer gweithwyr—neu ymlacio hawliau gweithwyr, fel maent yn ei alw. Byddai torri TAW hefyd yn rhoi hwb y mae ei fawr angen i’r diwydiant adeiladu—rhywbeth yr wyf wedi’i drafod â Ffederasiwn y Meistr Adeiladwyr a sefydliadau adeiladu eraill fel cadeirydd y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar adeiladu.

On the proposal for a system of low-cost loans to encourage the re-development of empty homes as affordable housing for rent, I support the policy, but such a bond system would have to come with caveats and conditions. It would not be right or fair for a landlord to use the loan to do up their properties so that they could charge more rent, for example. However, these things can be worked out alongside a system of interest-free loans to help low-income home owners improve their properties, which was a Welsh Labour manifesto commitment.

O ran y cynnig am system o fenthyciadau cost isel i annog ailddatblygu cartrefi gwag fel tai fforddiadwy i’w rhentu, yr wyf yn cefnogi’r polisi, ond byddai’n rhaid i system bond o’r fath ddod gydag amodau. Ni fyddai’n iawn nac yn deg i landlord ddefnyddio’r benthyciad i wella eu heiddo fel y gallent godi mwy o rent, er enghraifft. Fodd bynnag, gall y pethau hyn gael eu datrys ochr yn ochr â system o fenthyciadau di-log i helpu perchenogion cartrefi ar incwm isel wella eu heiddo, sef un o ymrwymiadau maniffesto Llafur Cymru.

I have a final quick point about landlord accreditation. Local authority engagement with private landlords and tenants varies, but Carmarthenshire County Council is doing good work in that area. It has worked hard to improve conditions for private tenants and 500 landlords have already signed up to its accreditation scheme, under which it awards bronze, silver and gold accreditation. Therefore, tenants, as well as consumers, are informed.

Mae gen i bwynt cyflym olaf am achredu landlordiaid. Mae ymgysylltiad awdurdodau lleol â landlordiaid preifat a thenantiaid yn amrywio, ond mae Cyngor Sir Gâr yn gwneud gwaith da yn y maes hwnnw. Mae wedi gweithio’n galed i wella amodau ar gyfer tenantiaid preifat ac mae 500 o landlordiaid eisoes wedi cofrestru yn ei gynllun achredu, lle mae’n rhoi achrediad efydd, arian ac aur. Felly, caiff tenantiaid, yn ogystal â defnyddwyr, eu hysbysu.

Julie Morgan: I am pleased to speak in this debate. I support the motion, which makes absolute sense and is about something on which there is a great deal of unity. Whenever a house becomes vacant in the private sector, the problems that have been mentioned today occur, and, if a house becomes vacant in the social housing sector, I am immediately inundated by people on the waiting list who would like to have that house. However, there has been a great deal of improvement with regard to the number of vacant houses in the social housing sector.

Julie Morgan: Yr wyf yn falch o siarad yn y ddadl hon. Cefnogaf y cynnig, sy’n gwneud synnwyr llwyr ac yn ymwneud â rhywbeth y mae llawer iawn o gytundeb barn arno. Pryd bynnag y bydd tŷ yn dod yn wag yn y sector preifat, mae’r problemau sydd wedi eu crybwyll heddiw yn digwydd, ac, os yw tŷ yn dod yn wag yn y sector tai cymdeithasol, yr wyf yn cael llu o geisiadau yn syth gan bobl ar y rhestr aros a hoffai gael y tŷ hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, bu cryn dipyn o welliant o ran nifer y tai gwag yn y sector tai cymdeithasol.

Shelter’s figure of 26,000 empty private homes in Wales—I declare an interest as my daughter works for Shelter—is higher than the Welsh Government’s figure. However, in Cardiff, in 2008-09 to 2009-10, there was a significant reduction in the number of empty properties, which is welcome.

Mae ffigur Shelter o 26,000 o gartrefi preifat gwag yng Nghymru—datganaf fuddiant gan fod fy merch yn gweithio i Shelter—yn uwch na ffigur Llywodraeth Cymru. Fodd bynnag, yng Nghaerdydd, yn 2008-09 i 2009-10, bu gostyngiad sylweddol yn nifer yr eiddo gwag, sydd i’w groesawu.

The point that I really wish to make is that, in any discussion about making more housing available through an empty homes strategy, it is impossible not to comment on the fact that any strategy will not counteract the effect of housing benefit cuts. People will be unable to afford to live in the private rented sector, which will mean an increased need for social housing, with, ultimately, much higher costs. Getting empty houses back into use is laudable and we all support that. However, if they end up in the private rented sector, there are specific problems with that, such as the fact that most tenancies in the private rented sector are only for six months and that that sector is not suitable for families, given that the tenancies are so short, which will certainly not help to create sustainable communities.

Y pwynt yr wyf wir am ei wneud yw ei bod, mewn unrhyw drafodaeth ynglŷn â chael mwy o dai drwy strategaeth cartrefi gwag, yn amhosibl peidio â dweud rhywbeth am y ffaith na fydd unrhyw strategaeth yn gwyrdroi effaith y toriadau i fudd-dal tai. Ni fydd pobl yn gallu fforddio byw yn y sector rhentu preifat, a fydd yn golygu mwy o angen am dai cymdeithasol, gyda chostau llawer uwch yn y pen draw. Mae defnyddio tai gwag eto yn ganmoladwy ac rydym i gyd yn cefnogi hynny. Fodd bynnag, os ydynt yn diweddu i fyny yn y sector rhentu preifat, mae problemau penodol gyda hynny, megis y ffaith bod y rhan fwyaf o denantiaethau yn y sector rhentu preifat ddim ond yn para chwe mis ac nad yw’r sector yn addas ar gyfer teuluoedd, o gofio bod y tenantiaethau mor fyr, ac ni fydd hynny’n helpu i greu cymunedau cynaliadwy.

The situation in social housing is much more secure with regard to tenancies, but the changes in housing benefit are causing huge concerns for people in that housing sector. The particular issue that causes me a great deal of concern is the proposal of a housing benefit penalty if you under-occupy your council property, which will result in a 10 per cent cut in benefit. Therefore, someone who has lived in a property for many years, and who, because their family has left home, is perhaps the only one left living there, faces having their housing benefit cut by 10 per cent. That is iniquitous and an awful way to approach trying to move someone on from a house that they may have lived in for a long time. The proposal, as it currently stands, will also apply to someone living in a house to which improvements have been made to accommodate their disability. If they under-occupy that house, they will also have their housing benefit cut by 10 per cent.

Mae’r sefyllfa o ran tai cymdeithasol yn llawer mwy diogel o ran tenantiaethau, ond mae’r newidiadau mewn budd-dal tai yn achosi pryderon enfawr i bobl yn y sector tai hwnnw. Y mater penodol sy’n peri cryn dipyn o bryder i mi yw’r cynnig i gyflwyno cosb i’r budd-dal tai os ydych yn tanfeddiannu eich eiddo cyngor, gan arwain at doriad o 10 y cant i’r budd-dal. Felly, bydd rhywun sydd wedi byw mewn eiddo am nifer o flynyddoedd, ac, oherwydd bod eu teulu wedi gadael gartref, efallai mai hwy yw’r unig un sydd ar ôl yn byw yno, yn wynebu toriad o 10 y cant i’r budd-dal. Mae hynny’n anghyfiawn ac yn ffordd ofnadwy i geisio symud rhywun ymlaen o dŷ y gallent fod wedi byw ynddo am amser hir. Mae’r cynnig, fel y mae ar hyn o bryd, hefyd yn berthnasol i rywun sy’n byw mewn tŷ y gwnaed gwelliannau iddo i ddarparu ar gyfer eu hanabledd. Os ydynt yn tanfeddiannu’r tŷ hwnnw, byddant hefyd yn cael toriad o 10 y cant yn eu budd-dal tai.

This has been a consensual debate, and I support the motion. We all want to work towards getting more houses into the housing market, but this issue of the proposal to cut housing benefit casts a shadow over all of this. I therefore hope that the proposers of the motion will go back to their friends in Westminster to say that these cuts go too far.

Mae hon wedi bod yn ddadl lle bu consensws, ac yr wyf yn cefnogi’r cynnig. Rydym i gyd yn awyddus i weithio tuag at cael mwy o dai i mewn i’r farchnad dai, ond mae’r cynnig i dorri budd-dal tai yn taflu cysgod dros bopeth. Felly, gobeithio y bydd cynigwyr y cynnig yn mynd yn ôl at eu cyfeillion yn San Steffan i ddweud bod y toriadau hyn yn mynd yn rhy bell.

Eluned Parrott: As we have heard, regenerating homes and areas has a significant social impact. Empty homes are a focal point for anti-social behaviour, arson and petty crime. We can all say that bringing more good quality housing back into use has benefits for all of us, as communities and individuals, not just for those who need a home and are unable to find one. This afternoon, I will focus on the way in which an effective empty homes strategy could help to improve our economy and I will talk about the ways in which dereliction and empty buildings depress the economy in Wales.

Eluned Parrott: Fel y clywsom, mae adfywio cartrefi ac ardaloedd yn cael effaith gymdeithasol sylweddol. Mae cartrefi gwag yn ganolbwynt i ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol, llosgi bwriadol a mân droseddau. Gall pob un ohonom ddweud bod dod â tai o safon dda yn ôl i ddefnydd o fudd i bob un ohonom, fel cymunedau ac unigolion, nid dim ond i’r rhai sydd angen cartref ac yn methu dod o hyd i un. Y prynhawn yma, canolbwyntiaf ar y modd y gallai strategaeth tai gwag effeithiol helpu i wella ein heconomi a byddaf yn siarad am y ffyrdd y mae cyflwr adfeiliedig eiddo ac adeiladau gwag yn dirwasgu’r economi yng Nghymru.

A basic need for any economy is that the workforce is able to live near its work. Housing is getting more and more out of the reach of normal people. While house prices in Wales are lower than in many other places, the truth is, sadly, so are wages. The average house price in Wales in September 2011, of £147,000, was 5.7 times the average salary in Wales of £26,000. Mortgage lending has dried up in recent times, and, with most mortgages now being, on average, three and half times the annual salary, property is out of the reach of the average-waged worker who does not have alternative sources of income or funds to fall back on. Therefore, we would urge action that would enable councils and housing associations to turn these vacant buildings into real homes for real people.

Mae’n angen sylfaenol ar gyfer unrhyw economi bod y gweithlu yn gallu byw yn agos i’w waith. Mae tai yn mynd fwyfwy allan o gyrraedd pobl normal. Tra bod prisiau tai yng Nghymru yn is nag y maent mewn llawer o leoedd eraill, y gwir yw, yn anffodus, bod cyflogau hefyd yn is. Pris tŷ ar gyfartaledd yng Nghymru ym mis Medi 2011 oedd £147,000, 5.7 gwaith y cyflog cyfartalog yng Nghymru o £26,000. Mae benthyca morgeisi wedi arafu yn ddiweddar, a gyda’r rhan fwyaf o forgeisi bellach, ar gyfartaledd, dair gwaith a hanner cyflog blynyddol, mae eiddo allan o gyrraedd y gweithiwr ar gyflog cyfartalog nad oes ganddo ffynonellau eraill o incwm neu gronfeydd i ddisgyn yn ôl arnynt. Felly, byddem yn annog camau a fyddai’n galluogi cynghorau a chymdeithasau tai i droi’r adeiladau gwag hyn yn gartrefi go iawn i bobl go iawn.

The regeneration of empty homes, particularly in areas where there is a prevalence of empty and derelict buildings, is crucial to the success of our economy. Dereliction in our towns discourages investment. Businesses want to be located in attractive, vibrant places. How do you attract investment into neighbourhoods that look as if they are dying? If we allow empty homes to go unchallenged, we risk allowing a spiral of decline to take hold in our small towns. More practically, refurbishing homes has a positive impact by supporting local businesses, providing jobs, skills and training. This idea of refurbishing, rather than building from scratch, is a particularly good strategy for Wales. Refurbishment jobs can be given to small companies. These procurement contract opportunities are ideal for Wales’s construction industry, in that our construction industry is centred on small and medium-sized enterprises. Therefore, there is an opportunity here for us to be able to award contracts locally, to keep jobs locally and also to keep the profits from those jobs locally. We do not have to rely on big players based elsewhere. Wales needs a kick start for its economy and it needs more housing. A well-thought-through empty homes strategy could give local authorities and home owners the powers, incentives and resources to bring empty homes back into use. It is a cost-effective way to improve our economy, while also improving the quality of people’s lives in every neighbourhood in Wales. Therefore, I am glad to hear the level of consensus in the Chamber today, and I hope that Members will support our motion.

Mae adfywio tai gwag, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd lle mae nifer fawr o adeiladau gwag ac adfeiliedig, yn hanfodol i lwyddiant ein heconomi. Nid yw diffeithwch yn ein trefi yn annog buddsoddi. Mae busnesau am gael eu lleoli mewn lleoedd deniadol a bywiog. Sut ydych chi’n denu buddsoddiad i gymdogaethau sy’n edrych fel pe baent yn marw? Os ydym yn caniatáu i gartrefi gwag aros fel y maent, rydym mewn perygl o adael i ddirywiad ledu’n gyflym a chymryd gafael yn ein trefi bach. Yn fwy ymarferol, mae adnewyddu cartrefi yn cael effaith gadarnhaol drwy gefnogi busnesau lleol, gan ddarparu swyddi, sgiliau a hyfforddiant. Mae’r syniad o adnewyddu, yn hytrach nag adeiladu o’r newydd, yn strategaeth arbennig o dda i Gymru. Gellid rhoi swyddi adnewyddu i gwmnïau bach. Mae’r cyfleoedd o ran contractau caffael yn ddelfrydol ar gyfer diwydiant adeiladu Cymru, yn yr ystyr bod ein diwydiant adeiladu yn bennaf yn fentrau bach a chanolig eu maint. Felly, mae cyfle yma i ni allu rhoi contractau yn lleol, i gadw swyddi yn lleol a hefyd i gadw’r elw o’r swyddi hynny yn lleol. Nid oes raid i ni ddibynnu ar chwaraewyr mawr sydd yn rhywle arall. Mae Cymru angen hwb ar gyfer ei heconomi ac mae angen mwy o dai arni. Gallai strategaeth tai gwag, â thipyn o feddwl wedi mynd iddi, roi’r pwerau, cymhellion ac adnoddau i awdurdodau lleol a pherchnogion tai ddefnyddio cartrefi gwag eto. Mae’n ffordd gost-effeithiol i wella ein heconomi, gan wella ansawdd bywyd pobl ym mhob cymdogaeth yng Nghymru. Felly, yr wyf yn falch o glywed lefel y consensws yn y Siambr heddiw, ac yr wyf yn gobeithio y bydd yr Aelodau’n cefnogi ein cynnig.

The Minister for Housing, Regeneration and Heritage (Huw Lewis): I extend my thanks to Peter Black for raising this issue today. As Members will know, I take a keen interest in the issue of empty homes and view additional action on this matter as a priority for Government. With regard to the figure of 26,000 empty properties across Wales, that is the figure that Shelter Cymru has been publicising over the last two years or so. I understand that Shelter Cymru revised that figure about a year ago, and its figure now stands at 24,000. However, it has yet to change the details on its website.

Y Gweinidog Tai, Adfywio a Threftadaeth (Huw Lewis): Hoffwn ddiolch i Peter Black am godi’r mater hwn heddiw. Fel y gŵyr Aelodau, mae gennyf ddiddordeb brwd yn y mater o gartrefi gwag ac rwy’n ystyried bod camau ychwanegol ar y mater hwn yn flaenoriaeth i’r Llywodraeth. O ran y ffigur o 26,000 eiddo gwag ar draws Cymru, dyna’r ffigur y mae Shelter Cymru wedi bod yn sôn amdano dros y ddwy flynedd diwethaf. Deallaf fod Shelter Cymru wedi diwygio’r ffigur hwnnw tua blwyddyn yn ôl, ac mai’r ffigur bellach yw 24,000. Fodd bynnag, nid yw wedi newid y manylion ar ei wefan eto.

Official figures for 2010-11 compiled from the performance indictor on empty properties, based on returns from each local authority across the country, put the figure at 21,970, with 954 properties having been brought back into use. I do not wish to quibble about the figures; they are far too high. The official figure indicates well enough that more needs to be done. It is my intention to take action to reduce the number of empty properties in the private sector to provide housing for people in need in so far as is humanly possible. I agree that properties that are empty long term are a social and an environmental blight on communities.

Mae’r ffigurau swyddogol ar gyfer 2010-11, a gasglwyd o’r dangosydd perfformiad ar eiddo gwag, yn seiliedig ar atebion gan bob awdurdod lleol ar draws y wlad, yn rhoi’r ffigur yn 21,970, gyda 954 eiddo wedi eu dychwelyd i ddefnydd. Nid wyf yn dymuno hollti blew am y ffigurau; maent yn llawer rhy uchel. Mae’r ffigur swyddogol yn dangos yn ddigon da bod angen gwneud mwy. Mae’n fwriad gennyf gymryd camau i leihau nifer yr eiddo gwag yn y sector preifat er mwyn darparu tai ar gyfer pobl mewn angen gymaint ag y gellid. Cytunaf fod eiddo sydd yn wag yn yr hirdymor yn niweidiol i gymunedau, boed yn gymdeithasol neu amgylcheddol.

5.45 p.m.

This is why our election manifesto and our subsequent programme for government contains a commitment to introduce an initiative to increase the number of empty homes in the private sector that are brought back into use. I also agree that there is an increased demand for social housing, hence the fact that we are making every effort to increase housing supply across Wales, but you will have to acknowledge that this is not an easy task against the background of the cuts in capital funding that have been imposed on us from Westminster.

Dyma pam mae ein maniffesto etholiad a’n rhaglen lywodraethu yn cynnwys ymrwymiad i gyflwyno menter i gynyddu nifer y cartrefi gwag sy’n cael eu defnyddio eto yn y sector preifat. Cytunaf hefyd fod mwy o alw am dai cymdeithasol, a dyna pam rydym felly yn gwneud pob ymdrech i gynyddu’r cyflenwad tai ar draws Cymru, ond mae’n rhaid ichi gydnabod nad yw hyn yn dasg hawdd yn erbyn cefndir o doriadau mewn cyllid cyfalaf a orfodwyd arnom gan San Steffan.

On the question of an empty homes strategy, as I have said, we are committed to the introduction of an initiative on empty homes, and whether you call it a strategy or an initiative is largely a question of semantics. We want a national co-ordinated programme of action in relation to empty properties and I am working with the Welsh Local Government Association and local authorities to achieve that aim.

O ran strategaeth cartrefi gwag, fel y dywedais, yr ydym wedi ymrwymo i gyflwyno menter ar gartrefi gwag, a mater o ddefnydd iaith ydyw, i raddau helaeth, os ydym yn ei alw’n strategaeth neu’n fenter. Yr ydym am gael rhaglen gydgysylltiedig genedlaethol o weithredu mewn perthynas ag eiddo gwag, ac yr wyf yn gweithio gyda Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru ac awdurdodau lleol i gyflawni’r nod hwnnw.

In terms of using empty properties as social housing, there is already work going on in relation to this, and some local authorities are working in partnership with housing associations on empty property issues. An example would be the work that is being undertaken by Caerphilly County Borough Council and United Welsh Housing Association.

O ran defnyddio eiddo gwag fel tai cymdeithasol, mae gwaith eisoes yn mynd rhagddo yn y cyswllt hwn, ac mae rhai awdurdodau lleol yn gweithio mewn partneriaeth â chymdeithasau tai ar faterion eiddo gwag. Un enghraifft fyddai’r gwaith sy’n cael ei wneud gan Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Caerffili a Chymdeithas Tai Unedig Cymru.

On the issue of council tax, I have raised the possibility of varying rates in relation to second homes and empty properties with my colleague the Minister for Local Government and Communities. I have also discussed the proposals that Scottish Government Ministers are working towards during my recent visit to Scotland. I have an open mind on this issue and the door is open to consider legislative and non-legislative, financial and non-financial solutions, including both incentives and sanctions to tackle problems such as this, relating to empty homes.

Ar fater y dreth gyngor, yr wyf wedi codi’r posibilrwydd o amrywio cyfraddau mewn perthynas ag ail gartrefi ac eiddo gwag gyda fy nghyd-Aelod, y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau. Yr wyf hefyd wedi trafod cynigion y mae Gweinidogion Llywodraeth yr Alban yn gweithio tuag atynt yn ystod fy ymweliad diweddar â’r Alban. Mae gennyf feddwl agored ar y mater hwn ac mae’r drws ar agor i ystyried atebion deddfwriaethol ac anneddfwriaethol, ariannol ac anariannol, gan gynnwys cymhellion a sancsiynau i fynd i’r afael â phroblemau fel hyn, sy’n ymwneud â chartrefi gwag.

Where VAT on building repairs and improvements is concerned, I am quite prepared to raise this issue again with the UK Government. The Minister for Finance has already undertaken a similar exercise in relation to VAT on this issue and wrote to the Chancellor in March of this year. The reply received did not look favourably on reductions in the level of VAT and cited the exceptional fiscal challenge that the UK coalition Government faces.

O ran TAW ar atgyweirio adeiladau a gwelliannau, yr wyf yn ddigon parod i godi’r mater hwn eto gyda Llywodraeth y DU. Mae’r Gweinidog Cyllid eisoes wedi cynnal ymarfer tebyg mewn perthynas â TAW ar y mater hwn ac ysgrifennodd at y Canghellor ym mis Mawrth eleni. Ni wnaeth yr ateb a dderbyniwyd edrych yn ffafriol ar ostwng TAW a nodwyd yr her ariannol eithriadol sy’n wynebu Llywodraeth glymblaid y DU.

It is worth stating, however, that current HM Revenue and Customs guidance does state that VAT can be charged at a reduced rate of 5 per cent if you are renovating or altering an eligible dwelling that has not been inhabited during the two years immediately prior to the work starting. While I am quite prepared to contact HM Treasury again, it may be more appropriate and effective for you, Peter, and your colleagues, next time you bump into Nick Clegg, to press the UK Government on this issue, and to impress upon it that, despite the exceptional fiscal challenge that it is facing, the fiscal challenge facing the people of Wales is somewhat more pressing.

Mae’n werth nodi, fodd bynnag, bod canllawiau presennol Cyllid a Thollau Ei Mawrhydi yn nodi y gellir codi TAW ar gyfradd is o 5 y cant os ydych yn adnewyddu neu addasu annedd gymwys nad oes neb wedi byw ynddi yn y ddwy flynedd cyn i’r gwaith ddechrau. Tra’r wyf yn barod iawn i gysylltu â Thrysorlys EM eto, efallai y byddai’n fwy priodol ac effeithiol i chi, Peter, a’ch cyd-Aelodau, y tro nesaf y dewch ar draws Nick Clegg, i bwyso ar Lywodraeth y DU ar y mater hwn, ac i bwyso arni, er gwaethaf yr her gyllidol eithriadol sy’n ei wynebu, bod yr her gyllidol sy’n wynebu pobl Cymru ychydig yn fwy dybryd.

On amendment 3 in William’s name, in relation to cost-benefit analysis, I cannot support this amendment as I do not think that it would achieve anything very much. It is something of a cheek considering that, in order to be effective, such a cost-benefit analysis would have to be UK-wide, and would be a matter for Westminster to undertake as far I am concerned. VAT is a matter for Westminster, it is non-devolved, and precious public funds in Wales would be best spent on research in order to make some kind of plea, again, to William’s colleagues at the other end of the M4. A direct conversation between the Welsh Conservatives and their counterparts in Westminster might be a quicker route.

O ran gwelliant 3 yn enw William, mewn perthynas â dadansoddiad cost a budd, ni allaf gefnogi’r gwelliant hwn oherwydd nid wyf yn credu y byddai’n cyflawni rhyw lawer. Mae’n ddigywilydd braidd o ystyried, er mwyn bod yn effeithiol, y byddai dadansoddiad cost a budd o’r fath yn gorfod bod ledled y DU, a byddai’n fater i San Steffan i’w gynnal, yn fy marn i. Mae TAW yn fater i San Steffan, nid yw wedi ei ddatganoli, a byddai’n well gwario arian cyhoeddus gwerthfawr yng Nghymru ar ymchwil er mwyn gwneud rhyw fath o apêl, drachefn, i gydweithwyr William ar ben arall yr M4. Gallai sgwrs uniongyrchol rhwng y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig a’u cymheiriaid yn San Steffan fod yn gynt.

On the other hand, I am very glad that the Conservatives have raised the issue of low-cost loans to bring empty properties back into use, especially in relation to our commitment to introduce an initiative or national programme of co-ordinated action. Indeed, I am pleased to announce today that I have been successful in bidding for an additional £5 million of capital funding that will be used specifically to target empty properties across Wales. The intention is to enable local authorities to offer loans to owners of empty properties to bring them back into use for sale or rent. The fund will be recyclable and should contribute to an increase in housing supply by making better use of the existing housing stock. I am sure that you will all agree that this is good news and represents a significant achievement against our programme for government proposals.

Ar y llaw arall, yr wyf yn falch iawn bod y Ceidwadwyr wedi codi’r mater am fenthyciadau cost isel i ddod ag eiddo gwag yn ôl i ddefnydd, yn enwedig o ran ein hymrwymiad i gyflwyno menter neu raglen genedlaethol o gamau cydlynus. Yn wir, yr wyf yn falch o gyhoeddi heddiw fy mod wedi bod yn llwyddiannus yn ymgeisio am £5 miliwn ychwanegol o gyllid cyfalaf a ddefnyddir yn benodol i dargedu eiddo gwag ledled Cymru. Y bwriad yw galluogi awdurdodau lleol i gynnig benthyciadau i berchnogion eiddo gwag i ddod â nhw yn ôl i ddefnydd ar werth neu rent. Bydd y gronfa’n ailgylchadwy a dylai gyfrannu at gynnydd yn y cyflenwad tai drwy wneud gwell defnydd o’r stoc tai presennol. Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddwch oll yn cytuno bod hyn yn newyddion da ac yn gamp sylweddol yn erbyn cynigion ein rhaglen lywodraethu.

On the issue of targets in Plaid Cymru’s amendment 6, tabled in Jocelyn’s name, I agree that they are important and, in that respect, it was encouraging to see that local authorities have already increased the number of empty properties brought back into use to 954 over 2010-11. I want to see that number go up even higher, and I hope that our new loans scheme will be a great help in achieving that aim. Part of the new loans scheme will include target setting, and we will be discussing this issue with the WLGA and local authorities. Targets have to be meaningful and realistic. I am happy to look at setting targets, but I do not necessarily agree that these need to be set annually as the amendment stipulates. We will be setting targets, but they will not necessarily be annual ones. That would constrain us too much at this point when we know too little about the lay of the land as regards this issue.

O ran targedau yng ngwelliant 6 Plaid Cymru, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Jocelyn, cytunaf eu bod yn bwysig ac, yn hynny o beth, yr oedd yn galonogol gweld bod awdurdodau lleol eisoes wedi cynyddu nifer yr eiddo gwag y gwnaethant eu dychwelyd i ddefnydd i 954 yn ystod 2010-11. Yr wyf am weld y rhif hwnnw’n cynyddu hyd yn oed yn fwy, a gobeithio y bydd ein cynllun benthyciadau newydd yn help mawr i gyrraedd y nod hwnnw. Bydd rhan o’r cynllun benthyciadau newydd yn cynnwys gosod targedau, a byddwn yn trafod y mater hwn gyda Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru ac awdurdodau lleol. Mae’n rhaid i dargedau fod yn realistig ac yn ystyrlon. Yr wyf yn fodlon edrych ar osod targedau, ond nid wyf o reidrwydd yn cytuno bod angen gosod y rhain bob blwyddyn fel mae’r gwelliant yn nodi. Byddwn yn gosod targedau, ond ni fyddant o reidrwydd yn rhai blynyddol. Byddai hynny’n cyfyngu gormod arnom ni ar hyn o bryd pan wyddom cyn lleied am yr union sefyllfa o ran y mater hwn.

Once again, I thank Peter Black for raising this issue today. It is very timely that he has done so. I also thank all the other Members who contributed to this important debate on empty homes, as it is one of the key priorities that the Welsh Government wishes to address.

Eto, diolch i Peter Black am godi’r mater hwn heddiw. Mae’n amserol iawn ei fod wedi gwneud hynny. Diolch hefyd i’r holl Aelodau eraill a gyfrannodd at y ddadl bwysig hon ar gartrefi gwag, gan eu bod yn un o’r blaenoriaethau allweddol y mae Llywodraeth Cymru’n dymuno ymdrin â nhw.

Aled Roberts: I would like to thank everyone who has taken part in the debate this afternoon. The number of speakers indicates the degree of interest in this subject in the Chamber. It is also gratifying to see the degree of consensus on tackling this issue. Mark Isherwood helped us in the first instance to identify the extent of the problem. Like him, I would like to pay tribute to the efforts of Denbighshire council in particular with regard to the number of properties that it has brought back into use. The work that Denbighshire council has undertaken clearly indicates that the role of registered social landlords is necessary. Some of the difficulties that local authorities have experienced in tackling this problem in the past include the fact that, although empty homes officers have been able to identify the properties concerned and action efforts, as soon as they got into a position where work could be carried out on those empty properties—and I am thinking of the case of Flintshire some years ago—the reality was that the funds available to local authorities to carry out work on those properties were very limited.

Aled Roberts: Hoffwn ddiolch i bawb sydd wedi cymryd rhan yn y ddadl y prynhawn yma. Mae nifer y siaradwyr yn dangos faint o ddiddordeb sydd yn y pwnc hwn yn y Siambr. Mae hefyd yn braf gweld cymaint o gonsensws ar fynd i’r afael â’r mater hwn. Fe wnaeth Mark Isherwood ein helpu yn y lle cyntaf i nodi maint y broblem. Fel yntau, hoffwn dalu teyrnged i ymdrechion Cyngor Sir Dinbych yn arbennig o ran nifer yr eiddo y mae wedi eu dychwelyd i ddefnydd. Mae’r gwaith a wnaeth Cyngor Sir Dinbych yn dangos yn glir bod rôl landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig yn angenrheidiol. Mae rhai o’r anawsterau y mae awdurdodau lleol wedi eu profi wrth fynd i’r afael â’r broblem hon yn y gorffennol yn cynnwys y ffaith, er bod swyddogion cartrefi gwag wedi gallu nodi’r eiddo dan sylw a rhoi camau ar waith, cyn gynted ag y daethant i sefyllfa lle gellid gwneud gwaith ar rai o’r eiddo gwag hynny—ac yr wyf yn meddwl am yr achos yn Sir y Fflint rai blynyddoedd yn ôl—y gwir amdani oedd bod y cronfeydd ar gael i awdurdodau lleol ymgymryd â gwaith ar yr eiddo hynny yn gyfyngedig iawn.

Mark Isherwood, you will have noted from Kirsty Williams’s reactions, that we are pleased to support all your amendments, apart from amendment 3. We think that there is a need for action at this stage, given the amount of time for which this has been identified as a major problem in Wales, and conducting a cost-benefit analysis at this stage will just slow the whole process down. I am also pleased that Leanne Wood mentioned Wrexham on at least three occasions in her remarks. Being serious about the whole thing, the reality is that almost all local authorities would identify that the reality is that, despite the intentions at the outset with the existing legislation—although it gives them the power to take action and puts various tools at their disposal—the empty dwelling management Orders are almost as lengthy and bureaucratic as the compulsory purchase orders that they replaced.

Mark Isherwood, byddwch wedi nodi o ymateb Kirsty Williams ein bod yn falch o gefnogi’ch holl welliannau, ar wahân i welliant 3. Credwn bod angen gweithredu ar hyn o bryd, o ystyried am ba hyd y cafodd hyn ei ystyried yn broblem fawr yng Nghymru, a dim ond arafu’r holl broses fyddai cynnal dadansoddiad cost a budd ar hyn o bryd. Yr wyf hefyd yn falch fod Leanne Wood wedi sôn am Wrecsam o leiaf deirgwaith yn ei sylwadau. I fod o ddifri am yr holl beth, y gwir yw y byddai bron pob awdurdod lleol yn nodi mai’r realiti yw, er gwaethaf y bwriadau ar y cychwyn gyda’r ddeddfwriaeth bresennol—er ei fod yn rhoi’r pŵer iddynt gymryd camau a rhoi amryw o ddulliau iddynt—mae’r Gorchmynion rheoli anheddau gwag bron yr un mor hirfaith a biwrocrataidd â’r Gorchmynion prynu gorfodol y gwnaethant eu disodli.

At this stage, it is worth noting that between 2004 and 2009, only two empty dwelling management Orders were enforced by local authorities in Wales. To make up for some issues I had with Peter Black a few weeks ago, he will be pleased to know that it is Swansea council that has successfully enforced those empty dwelling management Orders.

Ar hyn o bryd, mae’n werth nodi mai dim ond dau Orchymyn rheoli anheddau gwag y a orfodwyd gan awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru rhwng 2004 a 2009. I wneud yn iawn am rai materion a gefais gyda Peter Black rai wythnosau yn ôl, bydd yn falch o wybod mai cyngor Abertawe a wnaeth orfodi’r Gorchmynion rheoli anheddau gwag hynny’n llwyddiannus.

However, we think that the biggest factor affecting bringing homes back into use is finance. On that basis, I welcome very much the Minister’s announcement here today of the additional £5 million. It is very welcome and will help local authorities to achieve many of their aims. However, I would also ask the Minister to consider the possibility of using the social housing grant. I recognise that, against the backdrop of the 40 per cent cuts—

Fodd bynnag, credwn mai cyllid yw’r ffactor fwyaf sy’n effeithio ar ddychwelyd cartrefi i ddefnydd. Ar y sail honno, croesawaf gyhoeddiad y Gweinidog o £5 miliwn ychwanegol yma heddiw yn frwd. Croesewir hynny’n frwd iawn a bydd yn helpu awdurdodau lleol i gyflawni nifer o’u nodau. Fodd bynnag, byddwn hefyd yn gofyn i’r Gweinidog ystyried y posibilrwydd o ddefnyddio’r grant tai cymdeithasol. Rwy’n cydnabod, yng nghyd-destun y toriadau o 40 y cant—

Leanne Wood: I am sorry to interrupt you in mid-flow, but in summing up, you have not addressed the points made by Julie Morgan on housing benefit. Do you agree with her? If so, do you envisage any increase in the number of people squatting in empty homes as the housing benefit reforms will make rented housing unaffordable for many people?

Leanne Wood: Mae’n ddrwg gen i dorri ar eich traws yng nghanol eich araith, ond wrth grynhoi, nid ydych wedi ateb y pwyntiau a wnaed gan Julie Morgan ar fudd-dal tai. A ydych yn cytuno â hi? Os felly, a ydych chi’n rhagweld unrhyw gynnydd yn nifer y bobl sy’n sgwatio mewn cartrefi gwag gan y bydd y diwygiadau i fudd-dal tai yn gwneud rhentu tai yn anfforddiadwy i lawer o bobl?

Aled Roberts: The jury is out on the Welsh example. There is certainly much evidence to suggest that it could be an issue in many of the English conurbations. However, the discussions that I have had with Shelter and other organisations suggest that, in the Welsh context, the level of housing allowance and some of the other reforms mean that the picture is uncertain. The evidence that I have heard from the local authority housing officers whom I have spoken to is that the picture is very mixed. However, I accept that there are concerns with regard to the housing benefit reforms. I was going to go on to discuss some of the points that Joyce Watson and Julie Morgan made regarding some of the tasks that they have given to us on this side of the Chamber with regard to our Westminster colleagues.

Aled Roberts: Mae’r rheithgor allan ar yr enghraifft Gymreig. Mae llawer o dystiolaeth yn sicr i awgrymu y gallai fod yn broblem mewn llawer o gytrefi Lloegr. Fodd bynnag, mae’r trafodaethau a gefais gyda Shelter a sefydliadau eraill yn awgrymu, yng nghyd-destun Cymru, bod lefel y lwfans tai a rhai o’r diwygiadau eraill yn golygu bod y sefyllfa’n ansicr. Y dystiolaeth a glywais gan swyddogion tai’r awdurdod lleol y bûm yn siarad â hwy yw bod y darlun yn gymysg iawn. Fodd bynnag, derbyniaf fod pryderon o ran y diwygiadau budd-dal tai. Roeddwn yn mynd i fynd ymlaen i drafod rhai o’r pwyntiau a wnaeth Joyce Watson a Julie Morgan am rai o’r tasgau y maent wedi’u rhoi i ni ar yr ochr hon i’r Siambr o ran ein cydweithwyr yn San Steffan.

Mike Hedges gave us examples of the circumstances that can lead to properties becoming empty. He also stated that, in line with the Minister’s announcement today, the fact that this problem has been identified in the programme for government will mean that, whether we call it a strategy or an initiative, hopefully we can get action, which has been lacking under previous Welsh Governments.

Rhoddodd Mike Hedges enghreifftiau o amgylchiadau a all arwain at eiddo’n dod yn wag. Dywedodd hefyd, yn unol â chyhoeddiad y Gweinidog heddiw, fod y ffaith bod y broblem hon wedi’i nodi yn y rhaglen llywodraethu yn golygu, pa un a ydym yn ei alw’n strategaeth neu’n fenter, gobeithio y cawn weithredu, sydd wedi bod yn ddiffygiol o dan Lywodraethau Cymru blaenorol.

I also accept Joyce Watson’s comment that housing issues are very relevant with regard to a range of issues relating to quality of life. I have noted your request that we make representations to our Westminster colleagues with regard to the VAT reduction. Perhaps I can ask Labour colleagues how successful they were with regard to the representations that they made when their colleagues were in Government in Westminster.

Derbyniaf hefyd sylwadau Joyce Watson bod materion tai’n berthnasol iawn o ran amrywiaeth o faterion sy’n ymwneud ag ansawdd bywyd. Rwyf wedi nodi’ch cais inni gyflwyno sylwadau i’n cydweithwyr yn San Steffan o ran y gostyngiad mewn TAW. Efallai y caf ofyn i gyd-Aelodau Llafur pa mor llwyddiannus oeddent hwy o ran y sylwadau a wnaethant pan oedd eu cydweithwyr mewn Llywodraeth yn San Steffan.

Returning to the task that we have in front of us, Eluned Parrott noted that the impact of regeneration on communities should also be looked at with regard to this particular issue. I am pleased that the Minister has recognised, once again, the extent of the problem. I acknowledge that he has had a personal interest in this issue over many years. I agree that whether we call a national co-ordinated programme of action an initiative or a strategy is irrelevant; what we really need is a national programme of action. I also welcome the news that the Minister is already involved in discussions with his colleague the Minister for Local Government and Communities with regard to the issue of the council tax regime.

I ddychwelyd at y dasg sydd gennym o’n blaenau, nododd Eluned Parrott y dylid edrych ar effaith adfywio ar gymunedau hefyd o ran y mater penodol hwn. Yr wyf yn falch bod y Gweinidog wedi cydnabod, unwaith eto, maint y broblem. Cydnabyddaf y bu â diddordeb personol yn y mater hwn ers blynyddoedd lawer. Cytunaf ei bod yn amherthnasol pa un a ydym yn galw rhaglen weithredu gydlynus genedlaethol yn fenter neu’n strategaeth; yr hyn sydd wir angen arnom yw rhaglen weithredu genedlaethol. Croesawaf hefyd y newyddion bod y Gweinidog eisoes yn cynnal trafodaethau gyda’i gydweithiwr, y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau o ran y gyfundrefn dreth gyngor.

Therefore, I am pleased with the extent of consensus on the issue under discussion today. I am pleased that everyone has called for the talking to cease and for the action to start. I have made a note regarding the discussions that we should have with Mr Clegg when we bump into him.

Felly, yr wyf yn fodlon ar faint o gonsensws sydd ar y mater o dan drafodaeth heddiw. Yr wyf yn falch fod pawb wedi galw am i’r trafod ddod i ben ac i’r gweithredu ddechrau. Yr wyf wedi gwneud nodyn am y trafodaethau y dylem eu cael gyda Mr Clegg pan rydym yn dod ar ei draws.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd Dros Dro: Y cwestiwn yw a ddylid derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio. A oes gwrthwynebiad? Gwelaf fod. Felly, gohiriaf bob pleidlais ar yr eitem hon tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.

The Temporary Deputy Presiding Officer: The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Are there any objections? I see that there are. Therefore, I will postpone all voting on this item until voting time.

Cytunwyd y dylid cynnal y cyfnod pleidleisio cyn y ddadl fer. Cyn symud ymlaen at y cyfnod pleidleisio, a oes tri Aelod yn dymuno inni ganu’r gloch a gohirio’r cyfarfod? Gwelaf nad oes. Felly symudwn ymlaen at y cyfnod pleidleisio.

It has been agreed that voting time should be held before the short debate. Before moving on to voting time, do three Members wish for the bell to be rung and for the meeting to be adjourned? I see that no-one does. Therefore, we will move to voting time.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn:
The following Members voted against:

Asghar, Mohammad
Burns, Angela
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Graham, William
Isherwood, Mark
Ramsay, Nick
Sandbach, Antoinette

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Black, Peter
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Keith
Drakeford, Mark
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Evans, Rebecca
Gething, Vaughan
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
James, Julie
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Parrott, Eluned
Price, Gwyn R.
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Roberts, Aled
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Thomas, Simon
Watson, Joyce
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne

Gwrthodwyd y cynnig.
Motion not agreed.

6.00 p.m.

Gwelliant 1 i NDM4858: O blaid 39, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 16.
Amendment 1 to NDM4858: For 39, Abstain 0, Against 16.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn:
The following Members voted against:

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Keith
Drakeford, Mark
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Evans, Rebecca
Gething, Vaughan
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
James, Julie
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Price, Gwyn R.
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Thomas, Simon
Watson, Joyce
Whittle, Lindsay
Wood, Leanne

Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Burns, Angela
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Graham, William
Isherwood, Mark
Parrott, Eluned
Ramsay, Nick
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Williams, Kirsty

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment agreed.

Gwelliant 2 i NDM4858: O blaid 29, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 26.
Amendment 2 to NDM4858: For 29, Abstain 0, Against 26.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn:
The following Members voted against:

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Keith
Drakeford, Mark
Evans, Rebecca
Gething, Vaughan
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
James, Julie
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Price, Gwyn R.
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Watson, Joyce

Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Burns, Angela
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Graham, William
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Isherwood, Mark
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Parrott, Eluned
Ramsay, Nick
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Thomas, Simon
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment agreed.

Gwelliant 3 i NDM4858: O blaid 43, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 12.
Amendment 3 to NDM4858: For 43, Abstain 0, Against 12.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn:
The following Members voted against:

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Black, Peter
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Keith
Drakeford, Mark
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Evans, Rebecca
Gething, Vaughan
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
James, Julie
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Parrott, Eluned
Price, Gwyn R.
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Roberts, Aled
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Thomas, Simon
Watson, Joyce
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne

Asghar, Mohammad
Burns, Angela
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Graham, William
Isherwood, Mark
Ramsay, Nick
Sandbach, Antoinette

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment agreed.

Gwelliant 4 i NDM4858: O blaid 43, Ymatal 12, Yn erbyn 0.
Amendment 4 to NDM4858: For 43, Abstain 12, Against 0.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Black, Peter
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Keith
Drakeford, Mark
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Evans, Rebecca
Gething, Vaughan
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
James, Julie
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Parrott, Eluned
Price, Gwyn R.
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Roberts, Aled
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Thomas, Simon
Watson, Joyce
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne

Ymataliodd yr Aelodau canlynol:
The following Members abstained:

Asghar, Mohammad
Burns, Angela
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Graham, William
Isherwood, Mark
Ramsay, Nick
Sandbach, Antoinette

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment agreed.

Gwelliant 5 i NDM4858: O blaid 55, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 0.
Amendment 5 to NDM4858: For 55, Abstain 0, Against 0.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Burns, Angela
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Keith
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Drakeford, Mark
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Evans, Rebecca
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Gething, Vaughan
Graham, William
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
Isherwood, Mark
James, Julie
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Parrott, Eluned
Price, Gwyn R.
Ramsay, Nick
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Thomas, Simon
Watson, Joyce
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment agreed.

Gwelliant 6 i NDM4858: O blaid 4, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 51.
Amendment 6 to NDM4858: For 4, Abstain 0, Against 51.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn:
The following Members voted against:

Black, Peter
Parrott, Eluned
Roberts, Aled
Williams, Kirsty

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Asghar, Mohammad
Burns, Angela
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Keith
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Drakeford, Mark
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Evans, Rebecca
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Gething, Vaughan
Graham, William
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
Isherwood, Mark
James, Julie
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Ann
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Carwyn
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Price, Gwyn R.
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Ramsay, Nick
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Sandbach, Antoinette
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Thomas, Simon
Watson, Joyce
Whittle, Lindsay
Wood, Leanne

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment not agreed.

Gwelliant 7 i NDM4858: O blaid 55, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 0.
Amendment 7 to NDM4858: For 55, Abstain 0, Against 0.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Burns, Angela
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Andrew R.T

Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Keith
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Drakeford, Mark
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Evans, Rebecca
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Gething, Vaughan
Graham, William
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
Isherwood, Mark
James, Julie
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Ann
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Carwyn
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Parrott, Eluned
Price, Gwyn R.
Ramsay, Nick
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Thomas, Simon
Watson, Joyce
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment agreed.

Gwelliant 8 i NDM4858: O blaid 55, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 0.
Amendment 8 to NDM4858: For 55, Abstain 0, Against 0.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Burns, Angela
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Andrew R.T
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Keith
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Drakeford, Mark
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Evans, Rebecca
Jones, Alun Ffred
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Gething, Vaughan
Graham, William
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
Isherwood, Mark
James, Julie
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Parrott, Eluned
Price, Gwyn R.
Ramsay, Nick
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Thomas, Simon
Watson, Joyce
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment agreed.

Cynnig NDM4858 William Graham

Motion NDM4858 William Graham

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Yn cydnabod bod:

1. Recognises that:

a) buddsoddi mewn seilwaith trafnidiaeth yn angenrheidiol er mwyn cyflawni twf economaidd ledled Cymru;

a) investing in transport infrastructure is necessary to deliver economic growth across Wales;

b) bod pryderon fod angen cynyddu effaith economaidd Maes Awyr Caerdydd a datblygu llwybrau awyr newydd, a bod Llywodraeth Cymru felly yn gweithio gyda’r perchnogion i ysgogi rhagor o weithgarwch busnes a gwella’r cysylltiadau rhyngwladol.

b) concerns exist that there is a need to increase the economic impact of Cardiff Airport, and to develop new air routes, and that the Welsh Government is therefore working with the owners to stimulate further business activity and enhance international connectivity.

2. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i:

2. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) gweithio gyda pherchnogion Maes Awyr Caerdydd i lunio rhaglen farchnata i ddenu’r sector hedfan i Gymru ac adolygu a buddsoddi mewn mynediad cyhoeddus i Faes Awyr Rhyngwladol Caerdydd;

a) work with the owners of Cardiff Airport to set out a marketing programme to attract the aviation sector into Wales and review and invest in public access to Cardiff International Airport;

b) Parhau i ymgyrchu dros ddatganoli Toll Teithwyr Awyr i Gymru;

b) continue to campaign for the devolution of Air Passenger Duty to Wales;

c) adolygu’r gorsafoedd gwasanaeth a’r mannau aros i lorïau sydd ar hyd y prif ffyrdd ar draws Cymru ar hyn o bryd a rhoi manylion rhaglen fuddsoddi; ac

c) review the current service stations and truck stops along main carriageways across Wales and detail a programme of investment; and

d) adolygu ac ailasesu defnyddio rhaglenni cyllid Ewropeaidd ar gyfer prosiectau seilwaith trafnidiaeth ledled Cymru.

d) review and reassess the use of European funding programmes for transport infrastructure projects across Wales;

3. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i ddileu’r cymhorthdal i’r cyswllt hedfan rhwng y De a’r Gogledd ar y cyfle cyntaf ac i ddiystyru rhoi cymhorthdal i gwmnïau hedfan ychwanegol.

3. Calls for the Welsh government and UK government to begin work on a delivery plan for electrifying the Valleys Lines.

4. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i gymryd rhan mewn deialog gyda Network Rail a gweithredwyr cludiant cyhoeddus i wella cysylltiadau ar draws y ffin rhwng Gogledd Cymru a Meysydd Awyr Manceinion a Lerpwl.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to engage in a dialogue with Network Rail and public transport operators to improve cross border links between North Wales and Manchester and Liverpool Airports.

5. Yn cefnogi gwaith parhaus Cyngor Abertawe a Llywodraeth Cymru i lunio achos busnes dros drydaneiddio’r brif reilffordd cyn belled ag Abertawe.

5. Supports on-going work by both Swansea Council and the Welsh Government to draw up a business case to extend electrification of the main line as far as Swansea.

Cynnig NDM4858 fel y’i diwygiwyd: O blaid 55, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 0.

Motion NDM4858 as amended: For 55, Abstain 0, Against 0.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Burns, Angela
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Andrew R.T
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Keith
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Drakeford, Mark
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Evans, Rebecca
Jones, Alun Ffred
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Gething, Vaughan
Graham, William
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
Isherwood, Mark
James, Julie
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Parrott, Eluned
Price, Gwyn R.
Ramsay, Nick
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Thomas, Simon
Watson, Joyce
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne

Derbyniwyd y cynnig NDM4858 fel y’i diwygiwyd.
Motion NDM4858 as amended agreed.

Cynnig NDM4860: O blaid 10, Ymatal 12, Yn erbyn 33.
Motion NDM4860: For 10, Abstain 12, Against 33.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn:
The following Members voted against:

Davies, Jocelyn
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Thomas, Simon
Whittle, Lindsay
Wood, Leanne

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Black, Peter
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Keith
Drakeford, Mark
Evans, Rebecca
Gething, Vaughan
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
James, Julie
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Parrott, Eluned
Price, Gwyn R.
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Roberts, Aled
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Watson, Joyce
Williams, Kirsty

Ymataliodd yr Aelodau canlynol:
The following Members abstained:

Asghar, Mohammad
Burns, Angela
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Graham, William
Isherwood, Mark
Ramsay, Nick
Sandbach, Antoinette

Gwrthodwyd y cynnig.
Motion not agreed.

Gwelliant 1 i NDM4860: O blaid 33, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 21.
Amendment 1 to NDM4860: For 33, Abstain 0, Against 21.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn:
The following Members voted against:

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Black, Peter
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Keith
Drakeford, Mark
Evans, Rebecca
Gething, Vaughan
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
James, Julie
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Parrott, Eluned
Price, Gwyn R.
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Roberts, Aled
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Watson, Joyce
Williams, Kirsty

Asghar, Mohammad
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Graham, William
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Isherwood, Mark
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Ramsay, Nick
Sandbach, Antoinette
Thomas, Simon
Whittle, Lindsay
Wood, Leanne

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment agreed.

Gwelliant 2 i NDM4860: O blaid 55, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 0.
Amendment 2 to NDM4860: For 55, Abstain 0, Against 0.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Burns, Angela
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Keith
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Drakeford, Mark
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Evans, Rebecca
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Gething, Vaughan
Graham, William
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
Isherwood, Mark
James, Julie
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Parrott, Eluned
Price, Gwyn R.
Ramsay, Nick
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Thomas, Simon
Watson, Joyce
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment agreed.

Gwelliant 3 i NDM4860: O blaid 29, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 26.
Amendment 3 to NDM4860: For 29, Abstain 0, Against 26.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn:

The following Members voted against:

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Keith
Drakeford, Mark
Evans, Rebecca
Gething, Vaughan
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
James, Julie
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Price, Gwyn R.
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Watson, Joyce

Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Burns, Angela
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Graham, William
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Isherwood, Mark
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Parrott, Eluned
Ramsay, Nick
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Thomas, Simon
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment agreed.

Gwelliant 4 i NDM4860: O blaid 55, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 0.
Amendment 4 to NDM4860: For 55, Abstain 0, Against 0.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Burns, Angela
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Keith
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Drakeford, Mark
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Evans, Rebecca
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Gething, Vaughan
Graham, William
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
Isherwood, Mark
James, Julie
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Parrott, Eluned
Price, Gwyn R.
Ramsay, Nick
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Thomas, Simon
Watson, Joyce
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment agreed.

Gwelliant 5 i NDM4860: O blaid 55, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 0.
Amendment 5 to NDM4860: For 55, Abstain 0, Against 0.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Burns, Angela
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Keith
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Drakeford, Mark
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Evans, Rebecca
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Gething, Vaughan
Graham, William
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
Isherwood, Mark
James, Julie
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Parrott, Eluned
Price, Gwyn R.
Ramsay, Nick
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Thomas, Simon
Watson, Joyce
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne